tracker defense!!

[Debi]

If you can't afford one then you are playing at a level where they are not used much at all so it is really a non-issue.

However - at any level you have to have a bankroll of some sort. These things are not that expensive and if you are going to play and don't want to be at a disadvantage you have the option to use part of your bankroll to purchase it.

It is a choice you can make - just like everyone else. So that argument holds no water and really negates the entire debate imo.

 

[NCfoldem]

I used to think it was cheating. Now I just think it lacks style. They are tools used to maximize profit (more likely to reduce losses for most players at the very most). It's all about the science of poker but has nothing to do with the art of poker. Also, the random nature of the cards (or at least random to us, if you're a conspiracy theorist), makes tracking software much less effective. It only helps to know if your opponent is a calling station if he doesn't outflop you for example. But lots of times he will, despite the odds, despite your tracking prediction. I think it's far more effective to play the person not the person's statistics. You can get reads online, a bit more difficult, but getting a good read on an opponent in real time at your present table, will be more helpful to your game than a pile of stats. Just my opinion of course, but they seem to be most helpful in finding leaks in your own game.

 

[Poker Orifice]

OnyxPanther,
you've played a couple of hands online, and now you're going to start a petition? How many have you got lined up to sign up?

You're talking about wanting to keep things 'fair' & 'play by the rules'... BUT either you've got the wrong names written down in your player profile OR you have multi-accounts on Fulltilt (which is it?).

I've also noticed that you've played a total of 25sng's with avg. buyin 15cents and an ROI-93% and you're talking about players with trackers being unfair. I'm curious to know how much clout you'd think you'd have with a pokersite when your total buyins add up to $4 on one site, & $30 on another from back in 2007 (2 mtt's).

Do you figure it's due to the other players using PokerTrackers?

Why sign up to a poker forum & start telling the regs. on it to fk off, etc.? Seems pretty odd.

I got strange premonition/feeling that the '26oz. Estwing' is gonna come crashing down. It's kinda weird too... cuz this just came from a feeling.. with no real 'reads'... & this feeling came to me without even using a 'Tracker'.

This has been entertaining though.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

That last line of Belgo's post I think was actually an attempt as genuine advice.

Indeed.

 

[Suited Frenzy]

OnyxPanther,
you've played a couple of hands online, and now you're going to start a petition?

He prob has had a dif account in the past & is negative thousands & thousands of dollars on it. Finally realized one day that people were tracking & searching how he plays & thus got pissed & wanted to start a petition to get rid of the software being used. <<<<< Statements/Opinions are just a shot in the dark.

GL w/ your petition man.

 

[TPC]

I used to think it was cheating. Now I just think it lacks style. They are tools used to maximize profit (more likely to reduce losses for most players at the very most). It's all about the science of poker but has nothing to do with the art of poker. Also, the random nature of the cards (or at least random to us, if you're a conspiracy theorist), makes tracking software much less effective. It only helps to know if your opponent is a calling station if he doesn't outflop you for example. But lots of times he will, despite the odds, despite your tracking prediction. I think it's far more effective to play the person not the person's statistics. You can get reads online, a bit more difficult, but getting a good read on an opponent in real time at your present table, will be more helpful to your game than a pile of stats. Just my opinion of course, but they seem to be most helpful in finding leaks in your own game.

Wrong... The stats generated from tracking software is where your reads come from.

I would again like to thank Rhyno for actually contributing instead of making assumptions and getting bent out of shape like I am attacking there personal use of the program. I am just arbitrating the genral idea.

Rhyno didn't say anything, other than he agrees your post should go to the rigtard thread.

Also it's obvious you have no clue about tracking software. Maybe you should do some research before you go on a rant. PT3 and HEM are a one time charge. You are paying for the program. There is no yearly cost.

 

[edgie212]

Did he really say '3-bet, whatever that is?' I am humbled by his poker prowess.

 

[Makwa]

I really had no idea how they worked.. just did enough reading to find out that they track too many things that im not interested in caring about.. I dont care how many times somebody went 3bet, whatever that is lol

I am not surprised you got some good advice here despite your ridiculous petition and complaint. Judging from your statement above you are reckless and clueless about poker, no tracking software could help you. You found a helpful forum that will tolerate your confusion to some extent, but don't push it...

 

[only_bridge]

Im with you man, but only cause I am too lazy to learn PTR myself.

 

[JOEBOB69]

Maybe he doesn't like any tracking software because of takeing insults from other players.I like almost all of you all on the forum but yall where mighty quick to run to ptr an throw his bad stats in his face.An yes op might be a little confussed on what hem,or pt3 does. At first he didn't seem to be upset or angry at all till he was getting downed so much by everyone.
Just my 2 cents an no it's not worth s*it

 

[WVHillbilly]

fwiw, I never checked out any of his stats before (or after) assuming he was a losing player. I just read his OP and divined it.

 

[JOEBOB69]

I know WV but some did which is ok.But i'm saying might be the reason he don't like it i wouldn't.

 

[Makwa]

I like arguing and debating disputable things to try to offer a fresh opinion to those who use them or at least a reminder that they should be thinking about it.
I really had no idea how they worked.. just did enough reading to find out that they track too many things that im not interested in caring about.. I dont care how many times somebody went 3bet, whatever that is lol

An yes op might be a little confussed on what hem,or pt3 does. At first he didn't seem to be upset or angry at all till he was getting downed so much by everyone.
Just my 2 cents an no it's not worth s*it

U guys related?

 

[JOEBOB69]

Just my brother in law\ex step dad \2 cousin twice removed.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Maybe he doesn't like any tracking software because of takeing insults from other players.I like almost all of you all on the forum but yall where mighty quick to run to ptr an throw his bad stats in his face.

i didn't throw his stats at his face. I PTR'ed him and concluded that

• he hasn't played enough hands to have to worry about people exploiting advanced stats against him
• from the very basic stats one can get from the public version of PTR, OP has HUGE leaks in his game, and complaining against trackers should be the least of his problems, while trying to learn this game should be much higher on his priority list

Neither point is insulting. Both points are actually helpful for OP if he cared to listen.

 

[NCfoldem]

Reading involves intuition, (also based on logic). Numbers only reading will never quite measure up. For those people who lack intuition (pretty high % actually), they have no choice - look at the numbers. But for those that lack intuition, understand that there are others who possess it; it's a real thing; it's based on logic; accept that there is more than 1 way to get desired results. What works well for you, may not be ideal for everyone.

Wrong... The stats generated from tracking software is where your reads come from.



Rhyno didn't say anything, other than he agrees your post should go to the rigtard thread.

Also it's obvious you have no clue about tracking software. Maybe you should do some research before you go on a rant. PT3 and HEM are a one time charge. You are paying for the program. There is no yearly cost.

 

[Mr Whatever]

Things like poker tracker give u an unfair advantage. For the simple reason- there are beginners and recreational players that don’t even know of these programs to begin with. lololol

Besides that with pokertracker u can nit pick at some1s game that u wouldn’t normally get if u didn’t have the availability of that program, and especially if u played that person live. I mean these programs provide way more details that u could get on how ur opponents plays and uv got it all there right in front of u. u can break down some1s game rather quickly in a shorter time and relatively shorter hands.

but the way they are, these programs just give the user additional info on their opponents that a lot of the time wouldn’t normally get if the user just relied on normal hand histories.

Those databases, especially those databases I don’t like. if the names of those players would be replaced with a generic name I could see some1 working on their game to improve their play and it wouldnt be such an advantage.

I wouldn’t call for an outright ban of them though lolol but I would like the poker sites to better advertise or at least tell players about them to equal the playing field.

nice posting, a lot of work went into it
gl with that ban lololol

Gl

 

[TheOne2Watch]

I have never used a tracking service before and have been successful. I do not hold anything against anyone who does use them. Alot of my friends use them and it really helps them out, but I feel knowledge of the game and pure instincts will provide for me and my family. Good luck with your petition...I wont be signing it or supporting it

 

[TPC]

Reading involves intuition, (also based on logic). Numbers only reading will never quite measure up. For those people who lack intuition (pretty high % actually), they have no choice - look at the numbers. But for those that lack intuition, understand that there are others who possess it; it's a real thing; it's based on logic; accept that there is more than 1 way to get desired results. What works well for you, may not be ideal for everyone.

Women use intuition to make decisions, which is why they are irrational and crazy. Oh snap, JK. Sort of.

We are talking about online poker here. There aren't any reads but numbers and betting patterns. You can't see the persons mannerisms.

I think you play poker long enough, you get in situations where your alarm goes off, letting you know you are in trouble, ie in certain cooler situations. That's what intuition is. Don't tell me you use your intuition every single hand.

 

[NCfoldem]

It's not the kind of thing that one would "turn off" normally, so yes, I use it every single hand. It's far from foolproof it that's what you mean. There are reads online; normally you have to play at a table for a while before you can utilize them.

Women use intuition to make decisions, which is why they are irrational and crazy. Oh snap, JK. Sort of.

We are talking about online poker here. There aren't any reads but numbers and betting patterns. You can't see the persons mannerisms.

I think you play poker long enough, you get in situations where your alarm goes off, letting you know you are in trouble, ie in certain cooler situations. That's what intuition is. Don't tell me you use your intuition every single hand.

 

[TPC]

Things like poker tracker give u an unfair advantage. For the simple reason- there are beginners and recreational players that don’t even know of these programs to begin with. lololol

With a little research they would know about them. When you are interested in something don't you try to get more info on it? Stumble onto any poker forum and you'll find threads where people say he was a 30/10/1.5. Eventually they will figure out what those numbers mean and where they come from. Heck, at least once a month I see someone ask what those numbers mean here on CC.

Besides that with pokertracker u can nit pick at some1s game that u wouldn’t normally get if u didn’t have the availability of that program, and especially if u played that person live. I mean these programs provide way more details that u could get on how ur opponents plays and uv got it all there right in front of u.

You obviously don't have a poker tracker. If you are playing live you are only playing one table. With one table you don't need a HUD. The reason players use HUDs, is because you can't watch all the hands play out when you are playing 8 to 16 tables at the same time.

u can break down some1s game rather quickly in a shorter time and relatively shorter hands.

Again, just more proof you are someone bitching about something you haven't even taken the time to research. Most of the data takes time to converge. Which means you need a lot of hands on someone to get a good picture of what they are doing.

but the way they are, these programs just give the user additional info on their opponents that a lot of the time wouldn’t normally get if the user just relied on normal hand histories.

All the data comes from normal hand histories and no place else.

Those databases, especially those databases I don’t like. if the names of those players would be replaced with a generic name I could see some1 working on their game to improve their play and it wouldnt be such an advantage.

There wouldn't be a point to them then. And how is it an advantage when everyone can use it?

I wouldn’t call for an outright ban of them though lolol but I would like the poker sites to better advertise or at least tell players about them to equal the playing field.

Look around some sites offer deals that give HEM away for free. Heck Full Tilt and I think stars now have schools that are free to players. I'm sure tracking software comes up in those lessons at some point. Do you expect the poker site to play your hands for you too?

 

[Makwa]

I Found Yr Other Cousin!

Things like poker tracker give u an unfair advantage. For the simple reason- there are beginners and recreational players that don’t even know of these programs to begin with. lololol...
but the way they are, these programs just give the user additional info on their opponents that a lot of the time wouldn’t normally get if the user just relied on normal hand histories.

gl with that ban lololol

Can't believe this 'debate' still bubbles...

 

[Tygran]

I'm impressed with the mods patience on this one...

To the OP... I hope you heed some of the genuine good advice in here. Poker trackers are nothing to be worried about, learn to play first.

 

[joe steady]

this has to be a level

 

[dj11]

I feel knowledge of the game and pure instincts will provide for me and my family.

Poker instincts are not pure, they are constantly in flux as we each learn new stuff about the game. I have instincts about my odds in a hand now that I did not have 300,000 hands ago. The gut instinct of a new player will evolve over time depending on how fast he can adapt. Trackers can help speed up the process. But many folks who use trackers don't do the necessary homework to help speed that process up all that much.