*takes a deep breath*
First off here's a thread on the whole thing if you're interested in some details - it started when this case broke two years ago, but has been getting updates ever since:
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-news-events-63/
Any one see that news story on Phil regarding the Baccarat story. He won 7 mil in 2 days and the England casino refused to pay him saying that he used a technique were he saw a flaw on the back of the cards so he can see other players hands. I am going to watch the 60 minutes story but I do think Phil is one of the most upstanding players in the world and I do not think he would cheat. what do you all think ?????
Ivey freely admits to being an "advantage player" when he's playing table games. Whether "advantage play" is the same as "cheating" is basically what this case is looking to decide.
Note this doesn't suggest for a second that he cheats people at poker - and he very obviously doesn't consider what he does at table games to be cheating either.
But I think the phil is good enough so he dont need to cheat to win money.
At poker, sure. Baccarat / punto banco is a skill-free game though, there's no such thing as a "good" player.
So why does he do it? One, he's a massive degen (he just happens to be a winning one at poker). And two, he'll get action on table games (whereas smart poker players wouldn't want to play him since he's so much better).
Im not really sure about this.But from what Im reading it seems there is another incident .If im wrong someone correct me.But as far as the baccarat story, seems like these casinos would have flawless cards to me.I mean surely perfect decks could be made with all the technology we have today.So even if it is true ,in my mind its the casinos fault and they should pay Ivey and pay back the peoples money that lost.Not sure if thats a popular opinion (especially with the casinos).But as to where its even true or not .I hope its not, but im about 50/50 on it.Would like to here some more opinions as to if people think hes guilty and if anyone has any insite on card flaws or even card manufacturing that would be interesting also.
There was a second incident (or series of incidents), you're right. The Borgata in the US is suing Ivey to get back about $9.7 million he won from them doing exactly the same thing.
As for casinos having flawless cards... yeah, you'd think they should. But apparently they some don't.
IIRC, edge sorting is an advantage play that casinos have only caught onto relatively recently. I think there are articles saying that even in the mid-2000s it wasn't widely recognised by casino game security teams. The part I find most amusing though is that it's ridiculously easy to counter, even if you DO have cards with printing flaws: you just incorporate a turn into the shuffle procedure
Yeah I have followed this somewhat closely on some other forums - It seems the casino was aware of everything, he and his companion requested certain things like the dealer be able to speak Mandarin - the dealer turn the cards certain ways - the same deck be used multiple days but at all points the casino could have easily said no. Now the casinos certainly seem to be telling any future customers to play elsewhere - If I had a casino where high stakes players came to play I would certainly not sue someone who won. I might fire the floor and supervisors who allowed these somewhat strange requests to continue after the 1st million. Seems like a clear case of incompetence on the casino's part.
In the Crockfords case, IMO both sides acted pretty shady. Ivey definitely went in looking to angle shoot the casino, and I'm almost certain the casino tried to freeroll him right back (as in, they would have definitely kept his money if he'd lost, but it seems like they recognised what he was doing, and planned all along not to pay him if he won).
Remember that advantage playing doesn't guarantee winning - it was still very possible he could have lost a huge sum in this game.
In the Borgata case, I think it's almost certainly incompetence. I mean they actually
paid him. And not just once, he did it to them several times, over the space of a few months!
