what did I do wrong?

[Ferdnuckles]

60 left in 200 entry low stake tourney...on button with 18 BB... UG has just a little less...I have A J Clubs...UG raises with about 5BB...I debate shoving...but call...we are heads up, flop is 9C 10C QS. UG shoves for about 80% of my remaining stack (8BB)... there's about 20 BB in pot if I call...I figure he has AA KK or QQ... I am open ended (4-8's and maybe only 2-K's, if he has the K's...10 outs for a straight..., 8 or 9 outs for the flush, let's say 8 if he has the KC or QC,.....18 outs, if he has K's, I have 3 outs for an Ace...if he has Aces... I have 4 outs for any K for a straight... I figure roughly 20 outs maybe on the flop) 80%..... I only have about 9 BB's left... figure my odds are good.. and call his all in... he turns over Q's for a set and rivers a 10 for full house... I don't catch anything.... should I have folded preflop, shoved preflop, or not called the flop raise....??? What did I do wrong??

 

[dannystanks]

You could easily shove 18 BB on the button there rather than calling 5 BB, that puts your opponent to a tough decision for their tournament life. It just so happened they had a hand this time it’s just bad luck for you. Good luck next time!

 

[Jessica1507]

Pre-flop maybe allinn, but after the flop you have a lot of outs, so I think I would do the same. You have nothing to regret.

 

[Ferdnuckles]

First... thanks to all for the quick responses...
Won't make much difference... but let me flesh out details

200 entry bounty tourney (Bounty worth from $100 to $1,000), 5 hours in, about 10 seats from Bubble...

6,000 12,000 blinds with a 12,000 ante
Both I (on the Button) and UG have about 160,000 chips
UG opens with 60,000 and everyone folds to me with A-J suited

I hadn't played a hand in almost 2 hours since my Aces got cracked by 6-9 offsuit (naturally)..
Didn't go on tilt, stayed patient, folded everything from the obvious K-2, J-4, 7-3, (which was majority of hands I got), even folding 10-J, J-Q, and Ace-10....

I assume from the responses, I should have continued to fold everything unless I got Aces or Kings...

I thought at some point needed to take a chance or get blinded out.... which looked like a real possibility

Thanks again

 

[Ferdnuckles]

Or is the better choice to either fold or shove preflop?

 

[primrose]

60 left in 200 entry low stake tourney...on button with 18 BB... UG has just a little less...I have A J Clubs...UG raises with about 5BB...I debate shoving...but call...we are heads up, flop is 9C 10C QS. UG shoves for about 80% of my remaining stack (8BB)... there's about 20 BB in pot if I call...I figure he has AA KK or QQ... I am open ended (4-8's and maybe only 2-K's, if he has the K's...10 outs for a straight..., 8 or 9 outs for the flush, let's say 8 if he has the KC or QC,.....18 outs, if he has K's, I have 3 outs for an Ace...if he has Aces... I have 4 outs for any K for a straight... I figure roughly 20 outs maybe on the flop) 80%..... I only have about 9 BB's left... figure my odds are good.. and call his all in... he turns over Q's for a set and rivers a 10 for full house... I don't catch anything.... should I have folded preflop, shoved preflop, or not called the flop raise....??? What did I do wrong??

Sorry of this comes across as pretentious, but if you post it as a proper hand history, properly formatted, in the Hand Analysis subboard, then I'll tell you. It's just really difficult to read this way, and I feel like if you're asking for help, you should take the time to present it properly.

 

[fundiver199]

I assume from the responses, I should have continued to fold everything unless I got Aces or Kings...

Its not just about your cards but also the situation. When UTG open raise to 5BB out of a <18BB stack, then he is saying, he has AJs beat, and thats why, you should have folded this particular hand. If it had folded to you, you can open AJs, and if UTG or anyone else had made a normal raise, you can rejam AJs for 18BB and have good fold equity. The best way to play a hand has nothing to do with, what happened in the previous 2 hours, unless you picked up some kind of reads on the opponent.

 

[Sparta77]

I've played a lot of similar cases.You didn't do anything wrong, only the other guy had good cards.

 

[RENEY444]

Sometimes folding a fairly good starting hand to an UTG strong raise is the prudent move deep in a tourney .

 

[Ferdnuckles]

again... thanks to all...what I'm hearing is I should have folded, waited for better hand or opportunity )which may not happen) and just get blinded out

 

[fundiver199]

,again... thanks to all...what I'm hearing is I should have folded, waited for better hand or opportunity )which may not happen) and just get blinded out

With 18BB you are not on the brink of getting blinded out. If a spot is losing, its losing, no matter how much you want to play a hand, because you have been card dead or whatever.

 

[eetenor]

60 left in 200 entry low stake tourney...on button with 18 BB... UG has just a little less...I have A J Clubs...UG raises with about 5BB...I debate shoving...but call...we are heads up, flop is 9C 10C QS. UG shoves for about 80% of my remaining stack (8BB)... there's about 20 BB in pot if I call...I figure he has AA KK or QQ... I am open ended (4-8's and maybe only 2-K's, if he has the K's...10 outs for a straight..., 8 or 9 outs for the flush, let's say 8 if he has the KC or QC,.....18 outs, if he has K's, I have 3 outs for an Ace...if he has Aces... I have 4 outs for any K for a straight... I figure roughly 20 outs maybe on the flop) 80%..... I only have about 9 BB's left... figure my odds are good.. and call his all in... he turns over Q's for a set and rivers a 10 for full house... I don't catch anything.... should I have folded preflop, shoved preflop, or not called the flop raise....??? What did I do wrong??

Preflop is where this hand decision occurs. "I figure he has AA KK or QQ". Is what you want to think about preflop and if so then you fold. AK AQ also do this, but seldom worse AX hands like AT make it 5. Even more reason to fold preflop.

Your read was correct but 1 street late--once you called preflop you call off in this spot. Vs the set you have 40% equity

 

[SPANKYSN]

As many previous posts have pointed out, you played it correctly…unfortunately, your opponent had the better hand…whether you went all-in preflop or called, as you did, the result is the same.

 

[MAFNL16061986]

its bad luck you had i think

 

[Poker Orifice]

Preflop is where this hand decision occurs. "I figure he has AA KK or QQ". Is what you want to think about preflop and if so then you fold. AK AQ also do this, but seldom worse AX hands like AT make it 5. Even more reason to fold preflop.

Your read was correct but 1 street late--once you called preflop you call off in this spot. Vs the set you have 40% equity

this ^ (although I'm not sure what the attachment is there...)

If you're thinking UTG has AA, KK, QQ to pen for 5x off an 18bb stack, it's clearly a fold pre.

You don't have fold equity if you were to reshove here pre (& you're not getting called by worse).

BUT... as played... you're NEVER folding here on the flop in this spot. What better flop were you hoping for in a spot like this? If you're not going with it here, (getting 2to1) what flop would you feel good about getting it in on? J-J-3 ?

 

[Rldetheflop]

I think flatting here pre is a huge mistake with only 18BB. Depending on read from UTG whether to jam or fold. 5BB leaves little fold equity I think so I'm probably folding since I doubt we dominate much and are crushed by quite a bit most cases probably racing

 

[eetenor]

this ^ (although I'm not sure what the attachment is there...)

If you're thinking UTG has AA, KK, QQ to pen for 5x off an 18bb stack, it's clearly a fold pre.

You don't have fold equity if you were to reshove here pre (& you're not getting called by worse).

BUT... as played... you're NEVER folding here on the flop in this spot. What better flop were you hoping for in a spot like this? If you're not going with it here, (getting 2to1) what flop would you feel good about getting it in on? J-J-3 ?

The attachment is a miss click

 

[Noodeloo]

I would try to listen to all the intuition that says they arent raising any other hands than QQ+ in this situation but once you called the pre flop i would call down the flop - no mistakes - just an experience to learn from imo GL in future hands getting there ;p

 

[fundiver199]

You don't have fold equity if you were to reshove here pre (& you're not getting called by worse).

This is the key point of the hand. UTGs stack size was not clearly laid out by OP but was "a bit less than 18BB", so lets just say 15BB. And of course UTG is not putting in 1/3 of his chips preflop with intention to then fold to a 3-bet or for that matter fold postflop, if someone just call. So we essentially need to treat this as a 15BB jam from UTG. And somewhat deep in an MTT a hand like AJs is just not good enough to call a 15BB open jam from UGT, and especially not when its for nearly all our chips. I would only be giving action here with TT+, AK. AQs I might need to think about it a little, but AQo and AJs would be snap folds.

 

[steve01991]

did nothing wrong actually, you took a chance and it didnt pay off, better luck next time.

 

[fundiver199]

I would try to listen to all the intuition that says they arent raising any other hands than QQ+ in this situation

I actually disagree with that, since I would assume, that QQ+ would raise small to induce more action. But even if UTG is on this kind of capped range, he is also not putting in 5BB out of a 15BB stack with the entire table left to act behind him with any kind of hand, that AJs is ahead of. The range, I would assign an unknown player in this situation, would be 88-JJ, AQ+. And against that range AJs is completely crushed with only 37% equity.

Which is not nearly enough, when we are not yet involved in the action and will only get a small overlay from the blinds and antes, if everyone folds. And this is why, getting involved here is a fairly significant mistake, unless UTG is a known maniac, who can have a much wider range including hands like A9 or KJ, which we actually dominate with AJs.

but once you called the pre flop i would call down the flop - no mistakes - just an experience to learn from imo GL in future hands getting there ;p

The mistake was made preflop, and for that reason there is no reason to even look at postflop. The SPR was 1, and OP flopped a huge draw, so of course he has to get it in. But he should have ditched his hand preflop, and thats the only thing, that matter in this case.

 

[moraeskvmi]

Open 5bb, it seems like a very strong hand, a fake shove, the call with AJs would only work if there was some information about the villain.

 

[frost234]

I would have passed preflop.