Brutal cooler or just me being a fish?

[Rosylly]

Hi, just had a tough beat in tournament. Feeling like a get coolered, but I know it was my mistake.

Here's the situation, Mystery Bounty tournament, I have an average stack of 9500 chips, ~60BB, my hand

PRE-FLOP

MP: Open raise 2bb

ME (BTN): CALL

SB: CALL

My thoughts: Call for set mining with low pair in Mystery Bounty tournament, if i miss the flop i can always fold.

Is it good call or i should have I play different here?

FLOP

Everyone checks (including me in position)

My thoughts: awesome, i hit a set that i was searching for, everyone checks, i check to, slowplaying here.

Do you think i played all right, or i should have bet to get paid from possible draws?

TURN

SB: BETS ~2.7BB

MP: FOLD

ME:CALL (Slowplaying once again)

WHAT DO YOU THINK? I SHOULD HAVE RAISE HERE OR CALL IS BETTER? I FEEL LIKE CALL IS GOOD OVERALL.

RIVER

Weird card, any other would be easier to play, I got Full-house, but looks like my opponent has a Kx after him betting on turn and river.

SB: BETS ~8.8BB

ME: RAISE ~17.6BB

SB SHOVES, and I CALL

BOARD

ME:

SB SHOWS: having a higher full-house.


MY QUESTIONS TO YOU GUYS:

1. Was pre-flop right call or I should have play different, i think it was best decision to call here.

2. Should I have bet on flop to extract value from possible flash/street draws? Or check was allright?

3. Was my call optimal on turn or should i have raised?

4. What mistake was bigger to RAISE on river or to CALL a push?

5. Was it more of a fish play or a cooler?

Also i played this hand after bad beat at another tournament losing KK to T8o...

Thanks for answering guys! Hope someone will share thoughts.

 

[finaltable1]

- 60bb stack on BU - you can 3bet preflop to 5-8bb with any pocket pair, 3bet sizing depends on few factors. You're not looking for set mining, you have position, and you want to isolate. Your play is 3bet-fold preflop with 44.

- checking such flop multiway is a terrible mistake. You want to extract value from overpairs and flush draws, also isolate further so you can continue this hand 1v1. If it was 3bet pre and you're 1v1, then you should block with 25-30% pot size, if u're 3 handed in 3bet pot then sizing should be larger.

In the described situation, where pot is 2bb * 3 + bb + antes you should bet large, 80% pot size or more, you want A of diamonds to call but not to push all-in...

Turn and river - I don't want to discuss cause preflop and flop was played badly. You win this preflop or on the flop, or you continue to turn without SB, by not betting you're giving free cards to the SB and you've paid them your stack instead of them paying you 0.5-5+ BBs.

 

[Rosylly]

- 60bb stack on BU - you can 3bet preflop to 5-8bb with any pocket pair, 3bet sizing depends on few factors. You're not looking for set mining, you have position, and you want to isolate. Your play is 3bet-fold preflop with 44.

- checking such flop multiway is a terrible mistake. You want to extract value from overpairs and flush draws, also isolate further so you can continue this hand 1v1. If it was 3bet pre and you're 1v1, then you should block with 25-30% pot size, if u're 3 handed in 3bet pot then sizing should be larger.

In the described situation, where pot is 2bb * 3 + bb + antes you should bet large, 80% pot size or more, you want A of diamonds to call but not to push all-in...

Turn and river - I don't want to discuss cause preflop and flop was played badly. You win this preflop or on the flop, or you continue to turn without SB, by not betting you're giving free cards to the SB and you've paid them your stack instead of them paying you 0.5-5+ BBs.

Thanks, but considering it was Mystery Bounty why wouldn't i want to do set mining with such a low pair? Because i'll have to fold to 4-bet and after they CALL my 3bet, i 'll have to fold to almost any overcard on the flop anyways.

 

[Rosylly]

- 60bb stack on BU - you can 3bet preflop to 5-8bb with any pocket pair, 3bet sizing depends on few factors. You're not looking for set mining, you have position, and you want to isolate. Your play is 3bet-fold preflop with 44.

- checking such flop multiway is a terrible mistake. You want to extract value from overpairs and flush draws, also isolate further so you can continue this hand 1v1. If it was 3bet pre and you're 1v1, then you should block with 25-30% pot size, if u're 3 handed in 3bet pot then sizing should be larger.

In the described situation, where pot is 2bb * 3 + bb + antes you should bet large, 80% pot size or more, you want A of diamonds to call but not to push all-in...

Turn and river - I don't want to discuss cause preflop and flop was played badly. You win this preflop or on the flop, or you continue to turn without SB, by not betting you're giving free cards to the SB and you've paid them your stack instead of them paying you 0.5-5+ BBs.

Thanks, but considering it was Mystery Bounty why wouldn't i want to do set mining with such a low pair? Because i'll have to fold to 4-bet and after they CALL my 3bet, i 'll have to fold to almost any overcard on the flop anyways.

So i checked GTO Wizard and it says PRE-FLOP was a CALL, what do you think?

 

[primrose]

Preflop: call and 3bet will both be profitable, decide based on the opponent. GTO doesn't mater for low-stakes games. Don't fold.

Flop: You have to bet here, I'm much more fond of slowplaying than the average person, but this is not a spot that you can ever check. You're last to act, so betting just looks like you're trying to steal. You don't have to bet big, but checking last to act when there's 3 to a flush is crazy. This is by far the biggest mistake of the hand.

Turn and River are kind of whatever. I would have raised bigger on the River, but obviously that wouldn't have changed the result.

 

[Rosylly]

Preflop: call and 3bet will both be profitable, decide based on the opponent. GTO doesn't mater for low-stakes games. Don't fold.

Flop: You have to bet here, I'm much more fond of slowplaying than the average person, but this is not a spot that you can ever check. You're last to act, so betting just looks like you're trying to steal. You don't have to bet big, but checking last to act when there's 3 to a flush is crazy. This is by far the biggest mistake of the hand.

Turn and River are kind of whatever. I would have raised bigger on the River, but obviously that wouldn't have changed the result.

Thanks! Yeah, i agree that in low-stakes GTO which show results how to play against perfect opponent isn't the most relevant thing, but still...

Yep, post action i agree that i was obligated to bet there, smth like 33-50% would be fine i guess?

No thoughts on turn and river tho?

 

[neverbluff0799]

Hi, just had a tough beat in tournament. Feeling like a get coolered, but I know it was my mistake.

Here's the situation, Mystery Bounty tournament, I have an average stack of 9500 chips, ~60BB, my hand

PRE-FLOP

MP: Open raise 2bb

ME (BTN): CALL

SB: CALL

My thoughts: Call for set mining with low pair in Mystery Bounty tournament, if i miss the flop i can always fold.

Is it good call or i should have I play different here?

FLOP

Everyone checks (including me in position)

My thoughts: awesome, i hit a set that i was searching for, everyone checks, i check to, slowplaying here.

Do you think i played all right, or i should have bet to get paid from possible draws?

TURN

SB: BETS ~2.7BB

MP: FOLD

ME:CALL (Slowplaying once again)

WHAT DO YOU THINK? I SHOULD HAVE RAISE HERE OR CALL IS BETTER? I FEEL LIKE CALL IS GOOD OVERALL.

RIVER

Weird card, any other would be easier to play, I got Full-house, but looks like my opponent has a Kx after him betting on turn and river.

SB: BETS ~8.8BB

ME: RAISE ~17.6BB

SB SHOVES, and I CALL

BOARD

ME:

SB SHOWS: having a higher full-house.


MY QUESTIONS TO YOU GUYS:

1. Was pre-flop right call or I should have play different, i think it was best decision to call here.

2. Should I have bet on flop to extract value from possible flash/street draws? Or check was allright?

3. Was my call optimal on turn or should i have raised?

4. What mistake was bigger to RAISE on river or to CALL a push?

5. Was it more of a fish play or a cooler?

Also i played this hand after bad beat at another tournament losing KK to T8o...

Thanks for answering guys! Hope someone will share thoughts.

First of all, you should put the buy-in of the tourney because ranges change drastically between a $2.20 MTT and a $109 MTT. Let’s assume it’s a $2.20.

1 - I agree with you. In a small buy-in tourney, set mining will definitely be the most +chipEV in that spot, especially if you were covering for bounty.

2 - Checking the flop back was definitely a mistake 3-way on a very dynamic, draw-heavy board. A bet of around 35–40% seems perfect to me on the button.

3 - I think that range-wise, this board will hit the SB a lot, and you could already be in very bad shape versus a straight or a flush. It really depends on the kind of player I’m facing. If I think he’s the kind of guy who will overplay a K, I raise. But against a good, balanced player, I think it’s a call in position and reevaluate on the river.

4 - How many BBs did he have? If you were covering and putting him on a straight, a flush, or a K in a micro, you should have shoved — he would have snap-called. At least raise bigger. There are so few combos that beat you, especially when you block most 4s and he never has KK there. You only need to worry about 88, 77, K4, and K7.

8 - A bit of both. You definitely should have bet the flop, but again, he probably calls — and when he hits two pair, he never folds, and the cooler river would have come anyway.

 

[S3mper]

RIVER

Weird card, any other would be easier to play, I got Full-house, but looks like my opponent has a Kx after him betting on turn and river.

I'm fist pumping on that river, how would any other be easier to play? There's ton of Kx that you're ahead of which includes Kx with a diamond and now we're beating all flushes.

Raise bigger on the river.

As for the "slow playing" on the flop and turn it's fine. It probably mixes and when we do bet or raise it's going to be small anyways but we're more so pot controlling then slow playing. (Though if they checked turn then yes certainly bet probably somewhat larger) The problem with bloating these types of pots is there are lots of cards that change the nuts, and we can't really deny any equity from draws and when we go larger, we're often way behind when they continue.

Disclaimer: I suck at poker so take my advice with a grain of salt. In fact, with my skill level I shouldn't be giving any poker advice but sometimes I do.

 

[PocketKris]

Hi, just had a tough beat in tournament. Feeling like a get coolered, but I know it was my mistake.

Here's the situation, Mystery Bounty tournament, I have an average stack of 9500 chips, ~60BB, my hand

PRE-FLOP

MP: Open raise 2bb

ME (BTN): CALL

SB: CALL

My thoughts: Call for set mining with low pair in Mystery Bounty tournament, if i miss the flop i can always fold.

Is it good call or i should have I play different here?

FLOP

Everyone checks (including me in position)

My thoughts: awesome, i hit a set that i was searching for, everyone checks, i check to, slowplaying here.

Do you think i played all right, or i should have bet to get paid from possible draws?

TURN

SB: BETS ~2.7BB

MP: FOLD

ME:CALL (Slowplaying once again)

WHAT DO YOU THINK? I SHOULD HAVE RAISE HERE OR CALL IS BETTER? I FEEL LIKE CALL IS GOOD OVERALL.

RIVER

Weird card, any other would be easier to play, I got Full-house, but looks like my opponent has a Kx after him betting on turn and river.

SB: BETS ~8.8BB

ME: RAISE ~17.6BB

SB SHOVES, and I CALL

BOARD

ME:

SB SHOWS: having a higher full-house.


MY QUESTIONS TO YOU GUYS:

1. Was pre-flop right call or I should have play different, i think it was best decision to call here.

2. Should I have bet on flop to extract value from possible flash/street draws? Or check was allright?

3. Was my call optimal on turn or should i have raised?

4. What mistake was bigger to RAISE on river or to CALL a push?

5. Was it more of a fish play or a cooler?

Also i played this hand after bad beat at another tournament losing KK to T8o...

Thanks for answering guys! Hope someone will share thoughts.

Hello, I've noticed that most players tend to check when they have a set (including me). So recently I've changed my play style and it worked in my favour. If I was in your position, I would have bet 33% of the pot on the flop, because this will kick most players, for those who call, they should have pair or are waiting for something. In this example flush or straight. I actually got beaten the same way, I slow-played and lost very bad. I hope you understand my logic.

If you are looking for recommendations, I saw that you wrote "Also I played this hand after a bad beat....", I can see that you were tilted in some way and I totally understand you. There has been so many bad decisions, that have been made due to my tilt. In my opinion this is one of, if not the hardest thing to perfect in Poker. One book that helped me with this is "The mental game of poker by Barry Carter and Jared Tendler".

Hope it helps and also if you are interested I will upload a video, where I discuss my decisions in a tournament I played recently.

 

[Rosylly]

First of all, you should put the buy-in of the tourney because ranges change drastically between a $2.20 MTT and a $109 MTT. Let’s assume it’s a $2.20.

1 - I agree with you. In a small buy-in tourney, set mining will definitely be the most +chipEV in that spot, especially if you were covering for bounty.

2 - Checking the flop back was definitely a mistake 3-way on a very dynamic, draw-heavy board. A bet of around 35–40% seems perfect to me on the button.

3 - I think that range-wise, this board will hit the SB a lot, and you could already be in very bad shape versus a straight or a flush. It really depends on the kind of player I’m facing. If I think he’s the kind of guy who will overplay a K, I raise. But against a good, balanced player, I think it’s a call in position and reevaluate on the river.

4 - How many BBs did he have? If you were covering and putting him on a straight, a flush, or a K in a micro, you should have shoved — he would have snap-called. At least raise bigger. There are so few combos that beat you, especially when you block most 4s and he never has KK there. You only need to worry about 88, 77, K4, and K7.

8 - A bit of both. You definitely should have bet the flop, but again, he probably calls — and when he hits two pair, he never folds, and the cooler river would have come anyway.

it was a 1$ , i'm only studing, i made 20 bucks on freerolls in the beginnig of the last year, but only played for a month or so, and now again came back 3 weeks in after a year, made 30 bucks on freerolls on GG T$, but dont play tournaments cause wanna improve my skill, it was like first buy in, and played a 0.25 spin on GG)

Thanks for you thoughts!

I'm fist pumping on that river, how would any other be easier to play? There's ton of Kx that you're ahead of which includes Kx with a diamond and now we're beating all flushes.

Raise bigger on the river.

As for the "slow playing" on the flop and turn it's fine. It probably mixes and when we do bet or raise it's going to be small anyways but we're more so pot controlling then slow playing. (Though if they checked turn then yes certainly bet probably somewhat larger) The problem with bloating these types of pots is there are lots of cards that change the nuts, and we can't really deny any equity from draws and when we go larger, we're often way behind when they continue.

Disclaimer: I suck at poker so take my advice with a grain of salt. In fact, with my skill level I shouldn't be giving any poker advice but sometimes I do.

Thanks, for your participation here, yeah, i thought he would have weaker Kx there, but after he shoved i knew i was screwed and hero fold was just too much for me.

I mean, if instead of K it was any diamond i would easily fold my set, if it was A,Q,J,T i would play

ofc there are still dangerous cards like 5,6,7,8

 

[Rosylly]

Hello, I've noticed that most players tend to check when they have a set (including me). So recently I've changed my play style and it worked in my favour. If I was in your position, I would have bet 33% of the pot on the flop, because this will kick most players, for those who call, they should have pair or are waiting for something. In this example flush or straight. I actually got beaten the same way, I slow-played and lost very bad. I hope you understand my logic.

If you are looking for recommendations, I saw that you wrote "Also I played this hand after a bad beat....", I can see that you were tilted in some way and I totally understand you. There has been so many bad decisions, that have been made due to my tilt. In my opinion this is one of, if not the hardest thing to perfect in Poker. One book that helped me with this is "The mental game of poker by Barry Carter and Jared Tendler".

Hope it helps and also if you are interested I will upload a video, where I discuss my decisions in a tournament I played recently.

Hi, thanks for you participation here, i probably have to think more and concetrate on game than playing on the auto-pilot, i agree that 33% of the bank was near the perfect decision on the flop.

Yeah, I would like to see your video, since you're most likely more expirienced than me, or you're a beginner as well?

 

[PocketKris]

Hi, thanks for you participation here, i probably have to think more and concetrate on game than playing on the auto-pilot, i agree that 33% of the bank was near the perfect decision on the flop.

Yeah, I would like to see your video, since you're most likely more expirienced than me, or you're a beginner as well?

Actually I play poker since I was 14yo and since about 10 months I play online poker so I'd love to think that I am experienced.

 

[Rosylly]

Actually I play poker since I was 14yo and since about 10 months I play online poker so I'd love to think that I am experienced.

And now,you're 15?

Just kidding, yep, definetely more expirienced than me.

As i understand, since 14yo you was probably playing cash? And now you play online MTT? Or do you still play more cash, spins etc, online?

 

[PocketKris]

And now,you're 15?

Just kidding, yep, definetely more expirienced than me.

As i understand, since 14yo you was probably playing cash? And now you play online MTT? Or do you still play more cash, spins etc, online?

I stared with spin&go and mystery bounty, those games for a while and now I play mainly hold´em with cash and tournaments, also on Replay Poker. What about you?

 

[Rosylly]

I stared with spin&go and mystery bounty, those games for a while and now I play mainly hold´em with cash and tournaments, also on Replay Poker. What about you?

Right now i play freerolls, trying to build bankroll, made 30+ bucks in a few weeks, also trying study theory, wanna play MTTs as a profitable player on the distance.

Trying to get Platinum on our forum to be able to play more CC freerolls cause they are probably the best out of all sites, but WPT and partypoker aren't available in Ukraine, and for some reason i can't access game on Replay even with VPN, i wrote to local Replay support here, but haven't receive my response yet.

As for now, just wanna improve my skill and play more hands, cause i'm interested in the game right now

 

[dreamer13]

Coolers often cause negative emotions in the loser, since he loses chips, he needs to accept it and continue the game.The very definition of a cooler implies that it cannot be avoided. Situations with such annoying losses do not happen often, but they are part of the game, and you will have to put up with it.An inexperienced player will often loudly complain and curse fate for the cruel cooler. In fact, this hand cannot be attributed to a cooler, and he simply played poorly.

 

[fundiver199]

First of all you say, its a mystery bounty tournament, and then it matter, if you are already in the money or not. I will assume, you are not in the money, which mean, the bounties are not yet in play, and then we can basically analyse this as if, it was a cash game hand AKA chip EV.

Preflop
Yes I think, its fine to call here. Small pairs dont make good 3-betting hands, except when you are so short, that you can rejam, and folding a pair on BTN to a small open would be insanely nitty.

Flop
I think, checking here is a significant mistake. While you could be behind to a flopped straight or flush, you have a very strong hand, that always have loads of equity, unless you got oversetted, and in that case it just is, what it is. There are loads of worse hands, that can call you here including overpairs with or without a diamond or hands with a single high diamond.

You also dont want to give hands like A5 with 5 of diamonds or 22 with 2 of diamonds a free card to spike a small flush on the turn, so a bet here is also for protection against a very obvious draw, which at least one of the opponents is highly likely to have. Even if you get raised, its not the end of the world, since you have 7 outs to fill up on the turn and 10 on the river, so you can easily continue.

Turn
Since you should have bet the flop, there is no reason to dive deep into the turn decision, but raising now after checking flop looks way stronger than betting flop and then betting turn, so it would go completely against the (flawed) plan, you made on the flop.

River
This is a great river for you, since you now beat a flopped flush or straight, which SB can absolutely have. Its also pretty likely, he could have a K, that now improved to trips, so as played you absolutely have to raise for value. You only click it back though, and I think, this is leaving a lot of value on the table. If SB is a fish, you can jam to make it look bluffy, and you will still get a hero call from trips or better a lot of the time. If he is a good player, I would not jam, but at least go a bit bigger than this like maybe 22-25BB.

Now he 3-bet jam, and I am not thrilled about this, but you cant fold a full house starting with just 60BB. If we look at combos, there is only 1 combo each of K8s, K7s and K4s, and I dont think, he called out of SB with offsuit rag kings. So there are 3 combos of suited KX, which got there on the river, and 6 combos of better sets, that had you beat the whole time.

Its also possible, he could be jamming a flush or maybe even a straight for value, since your line looks more like a hand, that backed into trips than a flopped set. And finally he could be misinterpreting your minraise as weak and think, he still has fold equity, and be running a bluff with a hand like the stiff ace of diamonds or a counterfeited 87s. So as played you have to close your eyes and call here.

Conclusion
I do think, the river situation is a cooler, but I also think, it was a significant mistake to not bet the flop. So while the main purpose of a flop bet is not to get a random pair to fold to avoid losing to a runner-runner boat, you kind of created your own cooler here. If you bet the flop, K7s most likely goes away, and then you dont loose your entire stack on the river.

 

[renisundernet]

I would guess based on my plays it would be impossible to avoid as it draws attention to flushes more than higher full houses. But its interesting if it can be avoided anyways based on stack pressure.

 

[Brigistul]

This is what happens when you want to earn more! call preflop and All in on the Flop! that's the game.

 

[fundiver199]

Will just add, that in my opinion it matters, that we dont think, SB can show up with offsuit rag kings here. If he is a bad player, maybe he can, and then it would not be crazy to raise-fold the river for value. The same is true, if we were playing against BB, since he can defend to a min-raise with almost anything and certainly with K8o or K7o. So now there are 19 combos, we lose to, rather than just 9.
If we were playing against the preflop raiser, and the board ran out, , then 44 would become even more of a raise-fold on the river, or maybe even just a call, if he makes a large bet, because now the better boats are all over his range, and its also much more difficult for him to have a flush with two high flush cards on the board. So in some spots I do actually think, we can get away from a baby boat for 60BB, but not in this particular situation.

 

[fundiver199]

This is what happens when you want to earn more! call preflop and All in on the Flop! that's the game.

We do not want to jam 60BB into a pot of 8BB and only get action, when we are behind.

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

look at what theyre playing while out of position, lol, look at that board and see they dont have a suit. thats someone that 100% believes that its hard to hit the board and theyre not going to let go of middle pair with a good kicker. gto nonsense lol. ugh whatever k7s from the sb fine. ugh.

preflop is fine, you can try to reraise as one poster said but by looking at the ppl youre playing (with the K7s result), thats going to be difficult.

Plan the hand out preflop with a reraise.

say, you try 6+bbs pre then go with another 1/2 size pot bet on the flop or on the turn or go for a check raise not knowing the flop but just with a bare pair of 4s then youre putting too much of your stack at risk.

how many times are overs going to hit the board with just 4s? lol

If they have Aq, ak and miss the board depending if theyll take another card then you have put a lot more of your 60bbs in blind or behind. or youre going to have to keep blasting "hoping" they fold.

And i dont know about this try to push ppl off hands with little pairs on the button.

to me set mining multi way in position from late makes sense so the action is closed and you can see a flop cheap, not trying to isolate. youre looking for multiple callers to get all in against multiple stacks and be a fav for more than 1 stack.

so i dont know about that one.

preflop call in position is fine.

if you want to reraise in position then it depends if theyre good enough to fold hands in my mind. if not, call but deep stacked, i want their stack if i hit not the little reraise amounts. i'd go call preflop while only risking nothing there. and again, i want stacks not blinds and the little raise there.

At first sight, someone might be thinking the flop is utterly awful for your hand. forget about the end result. Its AWFUL. lol. you have almost nothing in the pot and still deep stack if you bail.

But. . .you should have bet there to see where you in the hand. Yes i know its scary but you're in position and deep stacked and you dont have to go bonkers just something to see who has any interest in the pot.

I think a nit might say save your mind, your sanity and dont run this professor honeydew experiement where you come out as beaker with that board.

but youre a heavy fav against an over pair and still a heavy fav if they have one suit of the flop cards. so bet the flop.

and your sim says call, lol , turn it off youre probably not playing the best players in the world!!!!

any rational person would say if you get called from a flop bet, then lets peel one looking to fill up and collect the callers bounty.

but the bet isnt big compared to your total stack just something to see if they have a pair or a flush card in their hand.

and if you get reraised thats also fine too since youre in position and it will clearly define their hand.

but again, not betting doesnt define anyones hand and the odds are youre just going to take it down right there on the flop since it is so nasty.

but. . .lol, someone would say if you bet there, ppl are going to fold and youre suppose to let them catch up to trap them and thats fine if you just happen to be in a hand where they dont have a flush card to that flop. then youre a massive fav with the set. if they have a flush card theyll come along and you build the pot to get their stack. bet the flop.

but even if the turn js a nonsuited ace and they hit it, youre not getting their stack with that board. unless theyre out there. even if they have the ace to that suit then theyre still a massive underdog to what you have. so thats not good.

and if the next card of that suit comes off then you can bail or control/ deem what is ok to continue so no biggie.

the biggest problem of that hand would be if you cant fold a set if the 4th flush card comes and the bettjng gets silly.

if you show aggression on the flop then even if they hit 2 pair there on the turn, theyre probably going to check to you and you decide if you want to bet or check to the river, im thinking.

if they happen to have a higher set than you from the flop and going by the passive action so far in the hand then them hoping you have a king while they have a set is rational.

And if you bet the flop and they do have a higher set, do you think theyre looking to play a big pot with you??? probably not , so again, i would bet the flop.

if they just have a bare king without a card of the flop suit then that isnt that great, i guess hoping you go away along with all the other scare cards. hmm so i guess thats fine?

does two pair make sense there? k7, k8 lol or what about AK? nope, theyd probably reraise preflop, kq,kj makes more sense to me.

the hand plays out like kq kj and theyre behind in my mind. if they have the higher set although unlikely then you can call that 9bbs bet plus all the other blinds and its still a nice pot.

if you showed any aggression on the flop or reraise the king bet on the turn and they still come out firing on the river then you could just call and see what it is but theyre not doing all that with trash.

that flop check actually makes the hand harder to play in my mind because 8s and 7s are reasonable calls from the sb but you dont know where you are in the hand. And you would have risked less because im thinking most ppl would bail on a pair without a suit of that flop there with action onthe flop.

overall, youre a heavy fav throughout that pot even if they have one card of the flop suit and in a bounty tourn in my opinion would have came out firing not trying to get fancy or cute or passive and should have started building the pot on the flop.

if they have a higher set, oh well, if they flopped the less then 1% chance of a flush then you still have 2 chances to pair the board while still in position and can control the pot and you would know they probably have more then lol 2nd pair unless theyre "out there".

that flop play is 100% on the op and why the hand went south. its too passive for a bounty tourn imo they either have something or nadda and its usually not the type of flop youre going to take their stack with unless theyre chasing the flush then its a dead give away and you still risk little compared to your stack and can bail without any major damage to your stack.

flop bet! build a pot when youre probably ahead or at least get some info where you are in the hand. the game gets easier. lol gl

 

[primrose]

No thoughts on turn and river tho?

Turn call is fine because of what fundiver said; River you're trying to get as much money in as possible, so you want to raise, if you get jammed on you want to call, only thing is you can raise bigger. Flush will call you as played.

 

[Mig32]

Hi, just had a tough beat in tournament. Feeling like a get coolered, but I know it was my mistake.

Here's the situation, Mystery Bounty tournament, I have an average stack of 9500 chips, ~60BB, my hand

PRE-FLOP

MP: Open raise 2bb

ME (BTN): CALL

SB: CALL

My thoughts: Call for set mining with low pair in Mystery Bounty tournament, if i miss the flop i can always fold.

Is it good call or i should have I play different here?

FLOP

Everyone checks (including me in position)

My thoughts: awesome, i hit a set that i was searching for, everyone checks, i check to, slowplaying here.

Do you think i played all right, or i should have bet to get paid from possible draws?

TURN

SB: BETS ~2.7BB

MP: FOLD

ME:CALL (Slowplaying once again)

WHAT DO YOU THINK? I SHOULD HAVE RAISE HERE OR CALL IS BETTER? I FEEL LIKE CALL IS GOOD OVERALL.

RIVER

Weird card, any other would be easier to play, I got Full-house, but looks like my opponent has a Kx after him betting on turn and river.

SB: BETS ~8.8BB

ME: RAISE ~17.6BB

SB SHOVES, and I CALL

BOARD

ME:

SB SHOWS: having a higher full-house.


MY QUESTIONS TO YOU GUYS:

1. Was pre-flop right call or I should have play different, i think it was best decision to call here.

2. Should I have bet on flop to extract value from possible flash/street draws? Or check was allright?

3. Was my call optimal on turn or should i have raised?

4. What mistake was bigger to RAISE on river or to CALL a push?

5. Was it more of a fish play or a cooler?

Also i played this hand after bad beat at another tournament losing KK to T8o...

Thanks for answering guys! Hope someone will share thoughts.

This is a really thoughtful post — thanks for laying it out so clearly. It helps a lot to look at each stage, so here’s my breakdown, from a fellow grinder’s point of view:

1. Pre-flop:

Yes, calling here is totally standard with 44 on the button. You're in position, getting decent odds, and set mining in a Mystery Bounty format is a solid play. No mistake here.

Only alternative would be a rare squeeze-bluff, but that’s advanced and unnecessary with this hand in this format.

2. Flop (8♦ 7♦ 4♦):

You hit bottom set on a super wet board — flush and straight draws everywhere.

Here’s where things start to lean toward a missed value opportunity.
You’re in position and everyone checks to you. This is where you should definitely bet for two reasons:

You deny equity from overcards/flush draws/straight draws.

You start building the pot for later streets.

Tip: On such wet boards, slowplaying is risky. A small bet (maybe 3–4 BB) would have been ideal to charge draws and get value from hands like top pair, pair + draw, or even overpairs.

3. Turn (K♥):

SB bets, MP folds, and you just call again.

Still okay, but slightly too passive. At this point, your set is vulnerable on this board texture. A raise would:

Take control of the hand.

Charge potential draws (e.g., A♦X).

Protect your hand against weird river scenarios — like what happened.

That said, calling isn’t awful. But I’d lean toward raising here to deny equity.

4. River (K♠):

This was the critical moment.
Now the board is paired again, and you're holding a full house, but it's the lowest possible one. His bet-shove line strongly reps Kx, which now has you beat unless he's bluffing with a missed draw (unlikely at this level and line).

You raise, he shoves, and you call.

Biggest Mistake Here:
Calling the shove. On this board texture, facing aggression, you should strongly consider folding, especially in a Mystery Bounty format where players love weird lines with disguised premiums.

Yes, it feels hard to fold a full house, but:
You only beat bluffs or misplayed hands.
He’s repping exactly what he had: Kx for a higher boat.

So, to answer your questions directly:

1. Pre-flop: Great call. Nothing wrong here.

2. Flop: You should have bet to build the pot and protect your equity.

3. Turn: Calling is okay, but raising would’ve been better.

4. River: The call after raise/shove was a mistake — not recognizing how narrow your value range is here. Folding was tough, but optimal.

5. Cooler or fishy?
This is more “learning mistake” than fishy. The situation was tricky, but with some experience, you’ll start recognizing when your full house is at the bottom of the boat hierarchy.

My final thoughts:

Don’t beat yourself up. This hand shows your thought process is strong and that you’re working to improve — that’s what separates a good player from a long-term loser. Everyone misplays hands; the important part is reflecting like you’re doing now.

You've clearly got the mindset of someone who wants to grow. Onward and upward!

 

[primrose]

LLM-generated reply

I just don't understand why people feel the need to copy-paste an LLM reponse into a discussion thread. Just -- why? Do you think it makes you look good? Even if the style wouldn't give it away, LLMs aren't even good at poker yet and give nonsense replies like saying that the River is the core of the hand, or that you should have folded a full house. If I didn't recognize the LLM prose I would just think you're bad at poker.

If you only get a slap on the wrist for this (if even that) then this problem is just going to get worse. If god forbid LLMs ever actually get good at the game even more people will do this. The forum will just slowly be infested with more and more LLM content 🤮🤮🤮