$5 NL HE MTT: AA my stupid game

[Geo90]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

5

Game Options

1. Bounty

Currency

$

CardsChat Poker Hands Converter

Convert your hand history into forum code, plain text or relive your hand and create animated replays

www.cardschat.com

This Sunday's Mystery Bonuty tournament has a $7000 guarantee
I'm sharing this hand just to learn from my own stupidity, I did pretty well in this tournament, there was a lot more to it but I blew it again

PF: I sometimes limp with premium cards, trusting someone to 3-bet, this time it was the other way around, but I should have raised with that many chips anyway

F: flop seems unthreatening at first, but with BB anything could happen because there was no raise pre-flop, 3bet could have been bigger to raise, CO makes a bigger 4bet, now what could he have?
A10 el PF would have been a raise, he could have J10 Q10 K10 but not sure if that would have been a 4bet, he could have 33 55 1010 straight draw flush draw could justify a 4bet

R: the allin must be showing a strong card here, the 4s didn't help him I had 2 outs on the straight but I think I should have folded at this point,KK QQ JJ can't have him because he would have raised preflop, I felt beat but just couldn't fold, there are tournaments when the game is going well and I feel like I can't just get out and then I get a bust :/

 

[Geo90]

CardsChat Poker Hands Converter

Convert your hand history into forum code, plain text or relive your hand and create animated replays

www.cardschat.com

After that I managed to get back into the tournament, but after a couple of games I was knocked out, here I was limping because of the Bounty, the problem is that these tournaments do not really pay until the final table, so I bet on the Bounty too, especially if it is bigger there.

Sb has played very tight so far, I did not even understand this surrender from him.

 

[fundiver199]

You kind of know it already, but I am just going to give you my breakdown of the AA hand with some additional points to consider.

Preflop
Yeah I would not limp here. I get the idea of going for a limp-reraise, but its a super unbalanced play, and it only works, when someone isolate.

Flop
Because it was a limped pot, the Stack to Pot Ratio (SPR) is now very deep at around 10, and for that reason I would not be willing to play for stacks with a single pair hand. I first heard about the concept of SPR from a guy called Splitsuit many years ago, and his guidelines for stacking off with a strong top pair or overpair were:

<3 always stack off
3-6 situational
>6 only stack off in exceptional situations

SPR is an old school concept from before solvers, but it can still help with hand planning in a situation like this. And because the plan here should be to not play for stacks, you have to just call the lead from BB and not raise. There is also another old saying, which apply here, and that is "never to broke in a limped pot". Meaning that because the SPR is so deep (usually even deeper in cash games), and several players saw the flop, you need a really strong hand to stack off.

As played when you face a cold 3-bet from CO, this is just a pure fold. A cold 3-bet is extremely strong action, and its very unlikely, he is doing this with top pair or a draw. Its almost always going to be 2 pair or sets, and its for a third of his chips, so it does not make a lot of sense to call now and fold later.

Results
To be fair you would likely also have gotten stacked, if you had raised preflop. He would likely have called to setmine, and with a now smaller SPR and perhaps only 2-3 players to the flop rather than 4, it would be difficult to get away from aces for 40BB effective. But at least you would then also win more from him, when he miss his set, which he does 7 out of 8 times.

 

[primrose]

CardsChat Poker Hands Converter

Convert your hand history into forum code, plain text or relive your hand and create animated replays

www.cardschat.com

PF: I sometimes limp with premium cards, trusting someone to 3-bet

Don't. You should not have a limp-raising range. You shouldn't have a limp-first-in range either. You should only ever limp behind, only do so on the SB, BN, CO, and maybe the HJ, and only with marginal hands that don't want to squeeze.

Aces usually make one pair on the Flop. One pair can win multiway but it's not a hand you want to play multiway.

(Also it would technically be a 2-bet; the blinds are considered the first bet, limping is flatting the first bet; if someone raises, it's a 2bet; your limp-raise would be the 3bet.)

Agree with fundiver on folding to the cold 3bet on the Flop.

 

[Geo90]

You kind of know it already, but I am just going to give you my breakdown of the AA hand with some additional points to consider.

Preflop
Yeah I would not limp here. I get the idea of going for a limp-reraise, but its a super unbalanced play, and it only works, when someone isolate.

Flop
Because it was a limped pot, the Stack to Pot Ratio (SPR) is now very deep at around 10, and for that reason I would not be willing to play for stacks with a single pair hand. I first heard about the concept of SPR from a guy called Splitsuit many years ago, and his guidelines for stacking off with a strong top pair or overpair were:

<3 always stack off
3-6 situational
>6 only stack off in exceptional situations

SPR is an old school concept from before solvers, but it can still help with hand planning in a situation like this. And because the plan here should be to not play for stacks, you have to just call the lead from BB and not raise. There is also another old saying, which apply here, and that is "never to broke in a limped pot". Meaning that because the SPR is so deep (usually even deeper in cash games), and several players saw the flop, you need a really strong hand to stack off.

As played when you face a cold 3-bet from CO, this is just a pure fold. A cold 3-bet is extremely strong action, and its very unlikely, he is doing this with top pair or a draw. Its almost always going to be 2 pair or sets, and its for a third of his chips, so it does not make a lot of sense to call now and fold later.

Results
To be fair you would likely also have gotten stacked, if you had raised preflop. He would likely have called to setmine, and with a now smaller SPR and perhaps only 2-3 players to the flop rather than 4, it would be difficult to get away from aces for 40BB effective. But at least you would then also win more from him, when he miss his set, which he does 7 out of 8 times.

Micro bets might not even need to worry so much about range balance to balance bluffs and value calls, a straight game might be more rewarding

I found this article, thanks I'll look into it, I haven't really looked into it https://www.splitsuit.com/spr-poker-strategy

So you would have easily dropped this on the flop?

Yeah, I guess I would have called preflop even if I raised 2-3BB
Thanks for your reply!

 

[Geo90]

Don't. You should not have a limp-raising range. You shouldn't have a limp-first-in range either. You should only ever limp behind, only do so on the SB, BN, CO, and maybe the HJ, and only with marginal hands that don't want to squeeze.

Aces usually make one pair on the Flop. One pair can win multiway but it's not a hand you want to play multiway.

(Also it would technically be a 2-bet; the blinds are considered the first bet, limping is flatting the first bet; if someone raises, it's a 2bet; your limp-raise would be the 3bet.)

Agree with fundiver on folding to the cold 3bet on the Flop.

I hope this has taught me that limping is never a good thing, simply after a multi-way pot I don't know where I stand, it's hard to make a good decision,

If it wasn't a bonutys tournament I would have raised anyway,

Thank you for your reply too, it's really annoying when a 5 hour tournament goes up on a bust like this :/

 

[Geo90]

CardsChat Poker Hands Converter

Convert your hand history into forum code, plain text or relive your hand and create animated replays

www.cardschat.com

After that I managed to get back into the tournament, but after a couple of games I was knocked out, here I was limping because of the Bounty, the problem is that these tournaments do not really pay until the final table, so I bet on the Bounty too, especially if it is bigger there.

Sb has played very tight so far, I did not even understand this surrender from him.

In bonutys tournaments, don't you play more relaxed? or how does the bounty affect your game? Or do you just play regular MTT?

I really like them, the extra excitement adds a lot to the game

 

[fundiver199]

So you would have easily dropped this on the flop?

I would not have raised the flop in the first place, so the hand would play out differently. But when I watched the replay and saw the cold 3-bet, my instant thought was "of crab now he is beat" even before seeing the showdown. Of course its impossible to not be at least at little results oriented, when you share the result in your post.

 

[Geo90]

Eleinte nem emeltem volna a flopnál, így a leosztás másképp alakult volna. De amikor megnéztem a visszajátszást és láttam a hideg 3-betet, azonnal az jutott eszembe, hogy "rák, most már verték", még a showdown megtekintése előtt is. Természetesen lehetetlen nem egy kicsit sem eredményorientáltnak lenni, amikor megosztod az eredményt a posztodban.

I also felt that I was knocked out, but I could not throw it away, this hand hurt a lot because I felt that I was running well in this race, in major races it does not work for me so much.

 

[fundiver199]

I also felt that I was knocked out, but I could not throw it away, this hand hurt a lot because I felt that I was running well in this race, in major races it does not work for me so much.

In a situation like this, when we are betting or raising for value and then face a raise, our instinctive reaction is to call. This is because the emotional part of our brain goes into defence mode, and this is the part of our brain, which is fastest to react. Its basically like the reaction of the cave man to start running, when a lion is chasing him. Activating the analytical part of our brain require more time. And for this reason a good advice is to force yourself to use the time bank, whenever you are in a situation like this. Take time to really think it through before acting.

Also in this situation, if you were going to continue, there is no real reason to just call. If the opponent is ever 3-betting a draw, he is probably going to take a free card on the turn, unless he gets there. So by just calling, you are essentially giving him two free cards to suck out on you. And if he is 3-betting a worse made hand for value, then he is willing to go with it and will not fold to a 4-bet jam. So if you were going to continue here, the better way to do it would be by 4-bet jamming.

 

[Geo90]

(Also it would technically be a 2-bet; the blinds are considered the first bet, limping is flatting the first bet; if someone raises, it's a 2bet; your limp-raise would be the 3bet.)

I also need to clarify two basic concepts in order to be able to describe the hands properly

 

[Geo90]

In a situation like this, when we are betting or raising for value and then face a raise, our instinctive reaction is to call. This is because the emotional part of our brain goes into defence mode, and this is the part of our brain, which is fastest to react. Its basically like the reaction of the cave man to start running, when a lion is chasing him. Activating the analytical part of our brain require more time. And for this reason a good advice is to force yourself to use the time bank, whenever you are in a situation like this. Take time to really think it through before acting.

Also in this situation, if you were going to continue, there is no real reason to just call. If the opponent is ever 3-betting a draw, he is probably going to take a free card on the turn, unless he gets there. So by just calling, you are essentially giving him two free cards to suck out on you. And if he is 3-betting a worse made hand for value, then he is willing to go with it and will not fold to a 4-bet jam. So if you were going to continue here, the better way to do it would be by 4-bet jamming.

This poker is a much deeper game than I thought, I love these thought pieces, they make me realize how much I have to pay attention to, and I often find myself just instinctively pushing the buttons, not thinking enough.

Sounds funny but I have a word before the game that I've been collecting points that I don't pay enough attention to or just overlook : position, ephemeral stacks, avoiding multiway pots, 3bet more, expanding my time bank utilization

Thank you actually with this call on the flop I am already committed to the pot, but you can see from the 3bet that he has such a strong hand he is not going to fold