$22 NL HE MTT: PP on paired board with 1 over

[Andyreas]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

22

Currency

$

We late regged, as usual and managed to doube up with AJ vs. A9.

Now we are UTG with 16.6 BBs and get 7d7s.

There's an option to open jam medium pocket pairs with this stack size.

Question 1: Would you usually opt for that?

I did not and just min-raised. It folds to BB (53 BBs) who calls. He was the player that doubled me up before. No notes or special reads on him.

Flop comes: 5h9s9d, so a pretty decent flop for me. Just one over and it's also paired. We also have a BDSD.

Question 2: Would you c-bet this? If so, what size?

I did c-bet for 2 BBs and get called.

Turn is 4c.

Question 3: Would you c-bet this again? If so, what size?

Basically I could stop my analysis here, since the rest of the hand was played wrongly without any doubt.

I c-bet again for 33% of the pot and he min-check-raises me. I can smell being beat but due to my investment, I call - hoping he's tilted of having lost the previous hand against me. Or just betting a low pair assuming I missed and am bluffing.

River is Jc. And he donks for my remaining stack. I definitely should have folded here, I think. But I called to due my already invested chips and me having only 5.4 BBs left folding here and having to pay the BB next hand.

Indeed, he reveals A9 (again - lol).

Retrospectily, it was a little silly to call his check-raise and turn and donk bet on river but I genuinely think it might have been avoided with more pot control or better bet sizes before. I just tried to avoid running into more overs.

 

[Goggelheimer]

We late regged, as usual and managed to doube up with AJ vs. A9.

Now we are UTG with 16.6 BBs and get 7d7s.

There's an option to open jam medium pocket pairs with this stack size.

Question 1: Would you usually opt for that?

I did not and just min-raised. It folds to BB (53 BBs) who calls. He was the player that doubled me up before. No notes or special reads on him.

Flop comes: 5h9s9d, so a pretty decent flop for me. Just one over and it's also paired. We also have a BDSD.

Question 2: Would you c-bet this? If so, what size?

I did c-bet for 2 BBs and get called.

Turn is 4c.

Question 3: Would you c-bet this again? If so, what size?

Basically I could stop my analysis here, since the rest of the hand was played wrongly without any doubt.

I c-bet again for 33% of the pot and he min-check-raises me. I can smell being beat but due to my investment, I call - hoping he's tilted of having lost the previous hand against me. Or just betting a low pair assuming I missed and am bluffing.

River is Jc. And he donks for my remaining stack. I definitely should have folded here, I think. But I called to due my already invested chips and me having only 5.4 BBs left folding here and having to pay the BB next hand.

Indeed, he reveals A9 (again - lol).

Retrospectily, it was a little silly to call his check-raise and turn and donk bet on river but I genuinely think it might have been avoided with more pot control or better bet sizes before. I just tried to avoid running into more overs.

You answered your question yourself.

Question 1: 16.6 BB is way too much to push here, way too many people behind.
77 is the bottom of your pushing range here so you can opt only for the raise

Check raises are mostly strong hands, like overpairs or trips. And an inside straight draw is kind of a hard playable thing even in position.

C-bet on the flop is fine,
c-betting the turn where the oop player told you he likes his hand and the board, is a bit of a problem, these underpair hands are mainly 1 street betting hands if they don't improve.

You made the c-bet on the turn card, and he gives you the answer.
He likes his hand a lot, and the board did not improve your hand on the turn.
The card was bad for you.
You can give up your hand when he raises you.

 

[primrose]

Hand 1 Preflop: I'm the wrong person to ask this, this is a GTO thing, and my limited GTO understanding says that it's close, so idk. Live I'm not jamming for 17 BB, but that's not really relevant. So, no opinion.

Hand 1 Flop: Yeah I think cbetting here is correct. I think sizing is also good.

Hand 1 Turn: I'd say, against a passive player, bet-fold is the best play, against an aggressive but bad player, check-jam, and against an actually strong player, just open-jam. This looks like a passive player, so I think your analysis is correct.

The minraise is absolutely horrendous, he should always call (or maybe jam, this looks weaker than a minraise). But you fell for it so you don't get to laugh at him

 

[primrose]

We late regged, as usual and managed to doube up with AJ vs. A9.

Uh, why? Isn't registering late really bad/something you should always avoid?

 

[Andyreas]

Uh, why? Isn't registering late really bad/something you should always avoid?

It's just my strategy to save time with long late reg periods. Even some pros do it in live tournaments.

Also, the site I'm playing on have a favourable payout structure for it. Definitely doesn't work at all sites. Tried it at other sites and didn't work that well.

The idea is that due to the large blinds that with a double up, you're sitting at more chips than other players and have a close to ITM stack. But heavily depends on the payout and bling structure.

It often happens to me if I reg in the beginning that due to a cooler/bad beat or simply bad decision making in key hands, I end up in the position of ending up slightly above or even below starting stack.

So all in all:
If you have the time and know all MTT stages pretty well, then early reg should definitely be beneficial for you. Since I often suck at very deep stacks, it often didn't really benefit me. 😅

 

[primrose]

Interesting. Well, if you are better than the average player, then your edge per tournament (and hence your ROI) should always be higher if you register early. But actually this is the wrong metric, especially for online tournaments; what really counts as is your advantage per time you play, not per number of tournaments. (Well, I guess what ultimately counts is how much fun you have, but in terms of being profitable it would be edge/time.) So if you get, say, two third of the edge for half the time investment, maybe registering late is actually better.

There is a problem with rake though since you pay the same if you register late. So if, say, the rake is 10%, and your edge is 15% when registering early and 11% when registering late, then your rake-adjusted edge is 5% and 1%, respectively, so in that case registering early would be better.

 

[Andyreas]

So if, say, the rake is 10%, and your edge is 15% when registering early and 11% when registering late, then your rake-adjusted edge is 5% and 1%, respectively, so in that case registering early would be better.

Interesting point of view but not sure I can follow it. Why is it 11% if I register late? 🤔 Because some fish already busted or why is it lower?

Well, I guess what ultimately counts is how much fun you have, but in terms of being profitable it would be edge/time.

Yeah, I think that's the main point.
If I lose like 10-15 mins after the end of late reg because I lost the flip, it doesn't matter that much to me as if I lost 2 hours in just before the end or after the end of late reg. 😅

 

[primrose]

Interesting point of view but not sure I can follow it. Why is it 11% if I register late? 🤔 Because some fish already busted or why is it lower?

Because you play fewer hands; your edge is generally proportional to how many hands you get to play.

 

[Andyreas]

Because you play fewer hands; your edge is generally proportional to how many hands you get to play.

Ah yeah, that makes sense of course 👍🏻

Probably not a really representative sample but for me registering early didn't bring better results overall. Probably my lack of knowledge of deep-stack play messed with this calculation.

 

[Marshmalo1994]

Question 1: Would you usually opt for that?

I think that I'd play push or fold a hand like 77. Personally if someone call my x2 raise, I won't be comfortable with many flops. I guess isn't a KO tournament, right?
I may push if it's a turbo or hyper, and maybe fold if it's a regular or slow structure. This is PTO strategy (Pablo theory optimal 😅).

Question 2: Would you c-bet this? If so, what size?

Is a good flop. I'd bet 2/3, trying to make overcards or suited hands fold.

Question 3: Would you c-bet this again? If so, what size?

I'd jam the rest of my stack, and cry after seeing his A9.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Definitely not open jamming anything from UTG for this stack size. 77 is a borderline open with this stack size, 22-66 are clear folds.

Flop
C-bet small for protection and perhaps a bit of value. Dont want to give random overcards like JT a free chance to improve.

Turn
We expected hand like JT to fold on the flop, so definitely to thin to bet again. Check back and try to show down cheaply.

 

[mariussica88]

Question 1: Would you usually opt for that?

I do not open Jam with 77 with 15-17bb left. I think there is still room for min-raise fold, and you should have a range like that in your play with 15bb left.

Question 2: Would you c-bet this? If so, what size? Post flop is not my strong point, I usually play it aggressive all the time.

In this situation I would c-bet around 1/3 or 1/2 Pot.

Question 3: Would you c-bet this again? If so, what size?

Most of the time I do think that I'm ahead here, and usually I bet big here. The ok play is to check since he called you on the flop, but and there is a big BUT....he is the BB and the BB calling range is wide, he has any 5x,4x, also yes he might have 9x hands, what we should think about is his full range.

Here is what I think his calling range should be:


Here is what I think his range actually is:




On the other hand players are not playing perfect poker....so there is a big possibility to have a 9 in his hand.

 

[primrose]

I think AK and probably AQ and also TT, JJ, QQ, and probably KK and maybe AA would 3bet, and you went a little too wide (Q3o is an unlikely defend), but otherwise I think you're on the right track with this range.