$2 NL HE MTT: QJS

[Geo90]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

2

Game Options

1. Bounty

Currency

$

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=aa16t8pr

Hello again , Here the Bonutys were already active

PF: My card is not strong enough to 3bet, so I just limped

Flop: Top pair with a hole pair, everyone limped, this call is very small in a multyway pot, here it could have been 20K, right?

R: The worst card fell, I made a mistake here, this call could have been called I think, what could he have? A10,1010,AQ But if he bets again on the river, the pot is too big to fold, so I didn't call

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Because of the limps CO has opened pretty large, and he should also be on a stronger range, than if it had folded to him. And for that reason I would also not 3-bet here. If CO is a tight player you could actually just fold. But I guess, its fine also to call, since you have ultimate position. You just need to be aware, that most of the time this will be a bloated multiway pot, which is not always the greatest thing in the world, if QJs flop top pair.

Flop
You do flop top pair, but its a very coordinated board, where a lot of logical two pair will be represented, especially in the limpers range, and someone might also have a straight already with QT, which again is a very likely hand for someone to limp-call. So even though your hand look strong, you actually need to proceed with caution here.

Another way to look at it, is which worse made hands will call, if you bet? And multiway hands like K9 or A8 really should not continue on this board. JT, TT, T9, T8 will clearly continue, but those hands are pair+draw and have a lot of equity, so you are not actually getting value from them. What I am getting at here, is, that even though QJ is top pair decent kicker, it can not really bet this board for value multiway.

That being said I guess, its ok to make a small bet to clean up some equity, and maybe even for a little bit for "information", since I think, its a somewhat easy fold, if you face a big check-raise. You could also check back though and see, what happen on the turn. Ideally you would want to see a low brick and then they check to you again, or at least there is no heavy action in front of you.

Turn
I dont know, what CO is ever donk leading with here other than exactly a straight. There is not even a flushdraw, he could be bluffing with, and if he was turning something into a bluff, would he not jam, when he only have around a 2/3 pot sized bet left? Only betting half his chips screams like "please give me action". You are not getting the odds to draw to 4 outs, so good fold.

 

[primrose]

Preflop: Fine play, although this is not limping. Limping is when you put 1BB in front of you. When someone raises before you and you call that raise, it's flatting or I guess calling.

Flop: You should lead when it's checked to you here; this is good.

Turn: Unfortunately this is a blunder; you absolutely cannot fold your two-pair here. Yes there's 4 to a straight; yes either villain could have it. But you're so priced in. You have more than enough to commit here. You should always just jam.

So you've played fine until the Turn and then messed up. I'd say the most general mistake here is not calculating odds, i.e., how much % to win do I need to commit my hand here. In this case, pretending the third player doesn't exist, that's just under 30%, which you absolutely have. (It helps that you can get a full house on the River -- or the T could come and you chop -- but you probably have 30% even without that. And the bounty makes it even better.) So yeah, never fold here.

 

[eetenor]

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=aa16t8pr

Hello again , Here the Bonutys were already active

PF: My card is not strong enough to 3bet, so I just limped

Flop: Top pair with a hole pair, everyone limped, this call is very small in a multyway pot, here it could have been 20K, right?

R: The worst card fell, I made a mistake here, this call could have been called I think, what could he have? A10,1010,AQ But if he bets again on the river, the pot is too big to fold, so I didn't call

Stopped the Vid on flop bet. As played our # 1 goal vs 3 players in a PKO is to win the pot on the flop ---does your sizing do that?
Why is it our # 1 goal? We become chip leader if everyone folds at 0 risk to our stack due to bad runouts of which on this board there could be many.

If we are not going to bet larger we should check to protect instead. We can delay bet a blank turn to get folds then or we can improve our hand at 0 risk to our stack on flop

 

[Geo90]

Preflop
A limpelés miatt CO elég nagyot nyitott, és erősebb laptartományban kellene lennie, mintha a csapat dobott volna ellene. És ezért én sem 3-beteznék itt. Ha CO egy feszes játékos, akkor egyszerűen dobhatsz. De azt hiszem, az is rendben van, ha megadod, mivel van végső pozíciód. Csak tudnod kell, hogy az esetek többségében ez egy felfújt több résztvevő mindig pot lesz, ami nem a legjobb dolog a világon, ha QJ-k floppolnak top párt.

Flop
Flopnál ugyan jöhet a top párod, de ez nagyon koordinált, ahol sok logikus két pár lesz képviselve, különösen a limperek tartományában, és valakinek lehet, hogy már van sora QT-vel, ami szintén nagyon megfelelő kéz a limp-call számára. Tehát még ha erősnek is látszik a kezed, óvatosan kell eljárnod.

Másképp nézve, melyik rosszabbul összeállított kéz fog megadni, ha nyitsz? Az olyan többrésztvevős kezek, mint a K9 vagy az A8, tényleg nem folytatódik ezen az asztalon. A JT, TT, T9, T8 folyamatosan folytatni fog, de ezek a kezek pár+húzósak és sok mindent van, így igaz nem kapsz belőlük értéket. Amit itt mondani akarok, az, hogy bár a QJ egy top pár, tisztességes kicker, nem igazán lehet vele nyitni ezen az asztalon értéknövelő többrésztvevős kezekért.

Ettől függetlenül azt hiszem rendben van egy kis téttel növelni a másikat, sőt, talán kicsit "információért" is, mivel szerintem könnyű dobni, ha nagy check-raise-el szembesülsz. De visszacheckelhetsz is, hogy megnézed, mi történik a turnön. Ideális esetben egy alacsony téglát szeretnél látni, majd újra checkelni, vagy legalábbis nincs nagy akció előtted.

Fordulat
Nem tudom, CO mivel kezd itt, ha nem pontosan egy sorral. Még csak flösshúzója sincs, blöffölhetne, és ha valamit blöffölne, nem menne allin, amikor már csak a pot 2/3-ának megfelelő tétje van? Ha csak a zsetonjainak felét teszi fel, az azt kiáltja, hogy "kérlek, adj nekem akciót". Nincs akkora esélyed, hogy 4 outig húzz, szóval jobb, ha dobsz.

Thank you all for your help!

Maybe it would have been better to pass on the flop, just to control the situation and give myself a little push on the turn, then maybe I can get to the river.

 

[Geo90]

Preflop: Fine play, although this is not limping. Limping is when you put 1BB in front of you. When someone raises before you and you call that raise, it's flatting or I guess calling.

Flop: You should lead when it's checked to you here; this is good.

Turn: Unfortunately this is a blunder; you absolutely cannot fold your two-pair here. Yes there's 4 to a straight; yes either villain could have it. But you're so priced in. You have more than enough to commit here. You should always just jam.

So you've played fine until the Turn and then messed up. I'd say the most general mistake here is not calculating odds, i.e., how much % to win do I need to commit my hand here. In this case, pretending the third player doesn't exist, that's just under 30%, which you absolutely have. (It helps that you can get a full house on the River -- or the T could come and you chop -- but you probably have 30% even without that. And the bounty makes it even better.) So yeah, never fold here.

Thanks for the directions, I sometimes get a couple of basic concepts wrong

If I have the 10's because UTG could raise 1010,A10 then I'm pretty much behind,



But if I include AQ,1010-KK then I am better off

,

 

[Geo90]

Stopped the Vid on flop bet. As played our # 1 goal vs 3 players in a PKO is to win the pot on the flop ---does your sizing do that?
Why is it our # 1 goal? We become chip leader if everyone folds at 0 risk to our stack due to bad runouts of which on this board there could be many.

If we are not going to bet larger we should check to protect instead. We can delay bet a blank turn to get folds then or we can improve our hand at 0 risk to our stack on flop

In hindsight I like it best on a bigger size flop, because calling 8200 into a 37000 pot is 22%, a straight draw won't fold there, but if I had called around 22k I might have flopped it, or check and called a small raise on the turn

 

[fundiver199]

But if I include AQ,1010-KK then I am better off.

But why would KK play passively and check-call the flop only to then lead the turn, when it brings a 1-liner to a straight? This makes no sense, and when we do hand reading, we want to assign our opponent a range, which is consistent with all their actions. AQ would make more sense, since it improved on the turn, and if you think, there is any chance, he might lead with just a top pair, then you pretty much has to get it in.

I am not so convinced about that. But it is a microstakes MTT, and some players might be bad enough to actually do this, because they cant read the board or dont want to check and face another bet. So if you think, there is enough of that going on, then maybe its ok to go with top two, but personally I still like a fold. You are also not closing the action, so even if CO is doing something silly with a hand like AQ, some of the time the other guy will snap you off with a straight.