mariussica88
Legend
Platinum Level
Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
I think, you have only a bluff catcher.
You lose to QQ+, AJ, 66, 33 (on the flop), after turn and river you also lose to 78 (second best made hand) and KQ (best made hand on river).
So you can fold here, stats are solid.
If you think or have seen him to put out a 3-barrel bluff you can call.
He bets flop 2/3 turn 2/3 and River AI would you play that with an underpair?
Here I would fold.
Problem here is your passive line in the multiway pot.
You lose to QQ+, AJ, 66, 33 (on the flop), after turn and river you also lose to 78 (second best made hand) and KQ (best made hand on river).
So you can fold here, stats are solid.
If you think or have seen him to put out a 3-barrel bluff you can call.
He bets flop 2/3 turn 2/3 and River AI would you play that with an underpair?
Here I would fold.
Problem here is your passive line in the multiway pot.
primrose
Visionary
Bronze Level
Tough one. I don't think you did anything wrong here, I would not have played any more aggressively given the particular situation. In fact I would have probably played the hand exactly the same way on every street, including River.
puzzlefish
Legend
Loyaler
I don't expect there are many triple barrel bluffs in early stages of mystery bounties especially at $15 buy-ins. Maybe I am wrong?
I don't really like calling pre-flop here to go four handed and continuing with a weak kicker and the top pair. You lose to too many stronger hands, even something like KJ, but KQs is quite reasonable here too for villain.
I would be comfortable letting it go on the turn.
I don't really like calling pre-flop here to go four handed and continuing with a weak kicker and the top pair. You lose to too many stronger hands, even something like KJ, but KQs is quite reasonable here too for villain.
I would be comfortable letting it go on the turn.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Preflop
Standard defend. With QJs I would consider squeezing from time to time.
Flop
The preflop raiser C-bet into 3 people, and he choose a sizing of around 80% in a multiway situation on a dry board, where the GTO sizing is probably more like 30% or even less. I think, this is basically announcing, that he likes his AJ or his QQ to much. There are not even any draws, we can put him on, since he likely dont open 54 from HJ playing a 18% VPIP. If he had JTs or J9s, he would feel unsure about his kicker and not go so big. So crazy as it sounds, I think, you are beat, and that the best play would have been to just fold right now.
Turn
Another bet of almost 80% pot, and unless he is bluffing with just two overcards, which I think is very unlikely given the multiway nature of the pot, you are beat. So if I called the flop, I would fold now.
River
I think, the best play would have been to fold on the flop, and the second best would have been to fold on the turn. So needless to say I also think, you should fold now as played. Fundamentally this is a cash game hand, since you are 100BB deep, and in cash games we hardly ever stack off with just one pair. And here you dont even have the nut one pair, since you lose to 18 combos of QQ-AA and 12 combos of KJ-AJ. Maybe KJ-AJ checks back now, that the board got scary, but there is still a ton of value, that beat you, and very few if any bluffs.
Standard defend. With QJs I would consider squeezing from time to time.
Flop
The preflop raiser C-bet into 3 people, and he choose a sizing of around 80% in a multiway situation on a dry board, where the GTO sizing is probably more like 30% or even less. I think, this is basically announcing, that he likes his AJ or his QQ to much. There are not even any draws, we can put him on, since he likely dont open 54 from HJ playing a 18% VPIP. If he had JTs or J9s, he would feel unsure about his kicker and not go so big. So crazy as it sounds, I think, you are beat, and that the best play would have been to just fold right now.
Turn
Another bet of almost 80% pot, and unless he is bluffing with just two overcards, which I think is very unlikely given the multiway nature of the pot, you are beat. So if I called the flop, I would fold now.
River
I think, the best play would have been to fold on the flop, and the second best would have been to fold on the turn. So needless to say I also think, you should fold now as played. Fundamentally this is a cash game hand, since you are 100BB deep, and in cash games we hardly ever stack off with just one pair. And here you dont even have the nut one pair, since you lose to 18 combos of QQ-AA and 12 combos of KJ-AJ. Maybe KJ-AJ checks back now, that the board got scary, but there is still a ton of value, that beat you, and very few if any bluffs.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
There could be. But probably not in this exact situation, since 4 players saw the flop, and it was bone dry. Which mean, the preflop raiser would need to take a hand like KQ and then bet 80% pot into 3 opponents, all of whom could easily have hit top pair or better. I think, this is highly unlikely, so when he takes this action, it almost always going to be fat value. And if he had fat value on the flop, its not possible for him to have a bluff later.
I think, its fine to call. We are getting 8:1, and we just need to play postflop well and not overvalue top pair. We can also sometimes make a straight, two pair or trips. And most of the time we will face either no bet on the flop or a much smaller bet than this one. If someone bet 30% pot, we can easily call, and maybe the check back turn, and now we are already at the river.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
In my opinion yes. Only strong made hands and good draws take this sizing. And since he cant have a draw, then by the method of exclusion it has to be a strong made hand. If we use any sort of logic at all, we need to put him on a range of 33, 66, JJ+, KJ, AJ, because nothing else make sense. If he has any hand other than those, he is making a massive mistake by betting so large on the flop. And while it is of course possible, that people are really bad at poker and make massive mistakes, its not my default assumption, when someone has a reasonable VPIP and is playing a $15 tournament.
Of course it can be argued, that if this is his range, then he is very unbalanced, which is also not "good poker". But I am more willing to believe, that he dont care about being balanced, because he think, he can get paid off anyway. Which in fact he did. Now that being said, I am not blaming OP for calling on the flop. In real time I would likely also have called. But analysing the hand away from the table, I feel quite strongly, that its a losing call, because Hero is never ahead, and he is not getting the odds needed to draw to 3 or 5 outs. And the turn call is a significant mistake, as most people seem to agree.
sandy358
Rock Star
Platinum Level
I think it was played alright, unless you were up against a maniac. There were not much 3-street barrel bluffs left there with all flush draws, KQ and 78 straights completing. You were basically up against completed draws and three-street-value hands you were dominated by, so a good river fold. Flop and turn calls are also decent IMO.
sandy358
Rock Star
Platinum Level
Ehh, I would probably disagree with this one. We are in a jack-high territory, where you would technically start sizing up your bets heads-up, so it's not like the big sizing is the main issue here, but mostly the fact that the villain bet into the multiway pot in the first place.
Considering that we are four-ways here, there is a chance that at least some of the opponents may not be playing GTO, but the OP didn't have good reads on them at the time. The villain could have been just trying to defend a weak top pair from habitual callers or could have been a maniac who would bet any two after people checked to him, so it's quite a hard task to put anyone there on ranges with the information given anyways.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Sure but even so there are 7 combos of sets, 18 combos of QQ-AA and 16 combos of KJ-AJ, whereas there are only 4 combos of J9s-JTs, which should be his only weak top pairs after opening preflop from HJ. So there are 41 value combos, that have us completely in rail and only 4 worse value combos, he could possibly be overplaying, if he is very bad at poker.
He was the preflop raiser, and only the players in the blinds had checked to him, which they would do with their entire range. This is not a sign of weakness and gives him no information whatsoever. He also still had one more player left to act behind him.
I dont think so. In fact I think, its pretty easy.
eetenor
Legend
Loyaler
Watching hand stopped preflop.
We want to start building our future street plans preflop. How do we do this?
We start with how strong is our hand. QJo is not strong and gets much weaker the more V we face and when we are OOP. Both factors at play here.
Our first thought should be yes we call but we do not stack off post flop unless we make a clearly strong 2 pair+ hand.
FLOP
J63R this is not a clearly strong hand--this is a weak made hand. Why? Build the range a V will have to have to stack off in this spot. That range is not good for us.
The preflop raiser bets big into 3 players build that range. Again not a great range for us but we could be ahead of some of that range what part of the range are we ahead of and what will that part of the range do on turn if it misses. If the V bluffs turn, what are they trying to get to fold.? Build your range.
By practicing now we can use these thoughts in game quickly to make the best decisions.
TURN
What is the V's range now. Value and Bluffs. When we call that big flop bet what is our range? What is the V trying to get us to fold? Why would the V think they would get value from us for this sizing?
River
Your river action depends on you properly building and refining your ranges from each street--
