Poker software = cheating?

[I Live Poker]

Okay no problem.
Well first you call me a King of the world. Im a strong man and im having strong opinions on stuff. I say what i say not cause i say so, but cause i think its right. And im not 100 per cent sure here, thats why theres a question mark in the title. So anyone is more then welcome to change my mind.
Then i respond its not cheat in the meaning you say, but more like a cheat of a whole game.
And this ain't some new controversy here, even on CardsChat "10tips for winning online poker" it says "While some players are against utilizing software while playing online poker, the author takes the stance that as long as it is allowed by the site's terms of service then it is a tool available to all, and therefore is fair game" implying that there are few opinions and they all could be right.
Well anyway i hope to see more poker rooms ban HUDs in future.

"Im not using any software to show player stats, and i think its somwhat cheating."

I have a job and i simply don't have enough time to sit there and investigate that data for half of day, and use all those tools and trackers, you know, cause i have a job.
So basically people who decided to not have job and have ton of free time to use some tools and stuff, and they are rewarded for that by having all the stats in their hands.
And thats very unfair at my opinion.
And now, even if i had some free time, i would still not use those tools. Its like killing the game and i just dont see no fun in this. Poker must be fun. Everything must be fun.


You mean you didn't say it was cheating?:joyman:



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[abgvedr]

...

Saying its cheating is kind of ambigous. Well anyway. Let's not. Ok? Said this said that.
You know this is another problem i was recently thinking about CardsChat - people only reading title + maybe initial post. But when you post your opinion, how do you know there are not like 20 posts like that already? Well you need to read or even just fastly look throught the thread. Add value to the whole conversation. Not to just the topic itself.

 

[abgvedr]

Because ok, maybe i did not make myself clear enough when i started this topic.
My bad.
I havent opened too many threads so bare with me.
But through this thread i explain it many times.

 

[I Live Poker]

Saying its cheating is kind of ambigous. Well anyway. Let's not. Ok? Said this said that.
You know this is another problem i was recently thinking about CardsChat - people only reading title + maybe initial post. But when you post your opinion, how do you know there are not like 20 posts like that already? Well you need to read or even just fastly look throught the thread. Add value to the whole conversation. Not to just the topic itself.

I read them all, as you can see my answers ..

 

[I Live Poker]

Saying its cheating is kind of ambigous. Well anyway. Let's not. Ok? Said this said that.
You know this is another problem i was recently thinking about CardsChat - people only reading title + maybe initial post. But when you post your opinion, how do you know there are not like 20 posts like that already? Well you need to read or even just fastly look throught the thread. Add value to the whole conversation. Not to just the topic itself.

I was just trying to help you with logical arguments, but you don't need help, be happy man!

 

[abgvedr]

I was just trying to help you with logical arguments, but you don't need help, be happy man!

Thanks my man. Ditto.

 

[Rockyfour]

Im not using any software to show player stats, and i think its somwhat cheating.

I have a job and i simply don't have enough time to sit there and investigate that data for half of day, and use all those tools and trackers, you know, cause i have a job.
So basically people who decided to not have job and have ton of free time to use some tools and stuff, and they are rewarded for that by having all the stats in their hands.
And thats very unfair at my opinion.
And now, even if i had some free time, i would still not use those tools. Its like killing the game and i just dont see no fun in this. Poker must be fun. Everything must be fun.

These tools are not even that effective lol, like they are, but most people don't know how to use so I wouldn't worry about it.

The big issue you are having, is that you are battling against players who are very smart, players who have studied a lot, and of course your BIGGEST ENEMY, the rake.

The rake is what makes it so only around 10% of players are able to cash out from a site a single time.

But anyways, it's not cheating using a HUD, it's within the rules. I understand you are salty losing money to people that are probably better than you, or possibly just getting unlucky, either way, you should expect to bleed money on these sites, HUD or no HUD.

 

[abgvedr]

I understand you are salty losing money to people that are probably better than you, or possibly just getting unlucky, either way, you should expect to bleed money on these sites, HUD or no HUD.

Well its neither of those things. I have never deposited a penny in online poker. But ~2 years of my life i was playing poker for living.
Also, what you say about rake, well how else should poker sites run? They gota make profit. I have never been in casinos but they have the same rake stuff there right?
And still to make profit you gota be beter then other players. Well and a little bit beter to pay rake to casino. I dont really see much problem with that.

 

[recerveau]

Im not using any software to show player stats, and i think its somwhat cheating.

I have a job and i simply don't have enough time to sit there and investigate that data for half of day, and use all those tools and trackers, you know, cause i have a job.
So basically people who decided to not have job and have ton of free time to use some tools and stuff, and they are rewarded for that by having all the stats in their hands.
And thats very unfair at my opinion.
And now, even if i had some free time, i would still not use those tools. Its like killing the game and i just dont see no fun in this. Poker must be fun. Everything must be fun.

My friend, I also don't think it's very romantic to use these softwares, it seems that it takes away the brightness and joy of the game.
But if you stick to the numbers and don't hack the cards, it's still acceptable.
PS: I still find it boring.

 

[Rockyfour]

Well its neither of those things. I have never deposited a penny in online poker. But ~2 years of my life i was playing poker for living.
Also, what you say about rake, well how else should poker sites run? They gota make profit. I have never been in casinos but they have the same rake stuff there right?
And still to make profit you gota be beter then other players. Well and a little bit beter to pay rake to casino. I dont really see much problem with that.

How have you never been in a Casino, deposited a penny, and managed to make a living playing Poker lol?

 

[abgvedr]

How have you never been in a Casino, deposited a penny, and managed to make a living playing Poker lol?

Well first of all there are freerolls. You can easily build some baby bankroll playing those.
If youre good you can win some money even with 10 dollars. If you are bad you can lose whatever bankroll you have. And yeah im not saying i made a ton of money but little less then i was making as a developer.
Also we don't have casinos here in Russia.

EDIT
I dont have much problems going from 2 to 20 bucks on microtables on ACR in just few days. I just lost any serious interest in online poker a while ago. I make enough money on my job so i dont need or want to play seriously.

 

[davidsincara]

Although i dont like huds on online poker, i dont think is cheating, is just like having a bast memory of hands you played vs your regs

 

[Rockyfour]

Well first of all there are freerolls. You can easily build some baby bankroll playing those.
If youre good you can win some money even with 10 dollars. If you are bad you can lose whatever bankroll you have. And yeah im not saying i made a ton of money but little less then i was making as a developer.
Also we don't have casinos here in Russia.

EDIT
I dont have much problems going from 2 to 20 bucks on microtables on ACR in just few days. I just lost any serious interest in online poker a while ago. I make enough money on my job so i dont need or want to play seriously.

You are so full of it, going for $2-20, in, "just a few days", is not a living wage first of all.

Second of all, if you were a winning player, you wouldn't be here blaming HUD's for your misfortune lol.

 

[abgvedr]

You are so full of it, going for $2-20, is not a living wage first of all.

Second of all, if you were a winning player, you wouldn't be here blaming HUD's for your misfortune lol.

Duno what you mean, i just say i dont see a problem wining some money with no deposit. And 20-30 bucks a day is already somthing here in Russia. Not like a lot, but many people make less than that.
And as i said im not blaming HUD on anything. And i dont have any misfortunes. Don't know what up man.
Yes overall im winning player and i quit 'serious' poker awhile ago. I like the game. I just don't like HUD.

 

[I Live Poker]

This post has gone completely off the topic and turned into trolling and bait. I would like to know where are the same moderators who deleted a post of mine with serious complaints about the breach of the terms of promotion made by party poker and do not delete this topic that was completely off topic and became the reason for personal attacks and lack of education? ???????

 

[abgvedr]

This post has gone completely off the topic and turned into trolling and bait. I would like to know where are the same moderators who deleted a post of mine with serious complaints about the breach of the terms of promotion made by party poker and do not delete this topic that was completely off topic and became the reason for personal attacks and lack of education? ???????

Nah all fine my friend, worry not.
Well anyway. There are rooms that allow HUD, there are those who does not, so everyone can have fun the way he wants.

 

[fasteddee74]

I loved using a HUD back on Stars. I moved to Nevada two years ago. On wsop it is a big no no and they can detect if you are using one.

 

[neptun1914]

Well correct me if im wrong but there is software that stores information on database and shares it.
And also not only it collects data, it also generates statistics over that data, and that is probably close to impossible for simple humans to do, simply too much data too many players.

Sharing your database with other players or using third party databases is prohibited and definitely form of cheating. This is something that should not be done. Using your own database made from your hand histories is ok. As far as it is legal and everybody have access to the tools i don't think that there is anything wrong.

 

[ASMautoneJr]

there are some programs that are considered illegal, and others that are allowed, using a calculator while playing is allowed !!!! and use of the cardchat site ..: D

 

[abgvedr]

there are some programs that are considered illegal, and others that are allowed, using a calculator while playing is allowed !!!! and use of the cardchat site ..: D

No i certainly did not mean such programs, just the HUD. And i thought it stores stats for all the players in some database. Like some sharkscope. How does it track all the little winnings? Might be watching all the tables 24/7. And i thought HUD thingy is doing the same. But apparently its not?!

 

[Pammypoo]

I play poker for fun..Not a pro for sure..But I like to win too. I think its uanfair to use Huds.

Most people who play for fun don't even know that players are using these.
I don't want an already skillfull player having yet another advatage over me or tracking my play. I blame the poker sites that allow the players to use them. So the players that do use them are not actually cheating if the site allows them to be used. But I do believe its unfair to allow players to use them. I personally don't really care if your tracking me or whatever.. I am able to determine who is capable of getting my chips and which ones are not.
I play mostly tournaments..So come get it!

 

[5pAce_C0wb0y]

Got to love a good tracking software debate. So I play on sites that allow tracking software and one's that don't. On the ones that allow it I use a HUD on ones that don't I do the datawork myself either way I'm collecting the same info on how you play. Am I cheating by writing info down on a piece of paper?

Im reality unless your playing on one of the much smaller sites no one is going to build up a big enough database to be able to 100% trust it. Unless they data mine or buy hand histories both of which are against sites T&C's.

However the big advantage is having access to all your own data so you can review hands, analyze your game and work to improve and plug your leaks. I work full time too and have 2 kids however I enjoy study and self improvemnt so use some of my free time to do just that. Is working to improve my own game also cheating?

 

[Rob Hobson]

YES, IT IS.

 

[henriquemaduro]

Im not using any software to show player stats, and i think its somwhat cheating.

I have a job and i simply don't have enough time to sit there and investigate that data for half of day, and use all those tools and trackers, you know, cause i have a job.
So basically people who decided to not have job and have ton of free time to use some tools and stuff, and they are rewarded for that by having all the stats in their hands.
And thats very unfair at my opinion.
And now, even if i had some free time, i would still not use those tools. Its like killing the game and i just dont see no fun in this. Poker must be fun. Everything must be fun.

I think because u have a job u have to use poker tools. Anyone can calculate what software does, but u will lost a long time to write down every movement of all players and then calculate. When u r done 1 round the game is on the 25th. It is not cheating, its just a help.

 

[JohnSmith29]

Collusion is a much more serious and persistent problem in online poker. Very difficult to eliminate.