Hit and run warning (GG Poker)

[Pete_Stew]

I got a hit and run warning playing online, that's ok, but the rules are not specific enough how to avoid this in the future.

In live poker i consider it also a bad behavior, leaving the table soon after a big win, but online??? There are enough tables available 24/7 to win your money "back". Just go to a table with a lot of deep stacks or go a blind level up!

I think it is a childish idea trying to win your money "back" from the same player you lost it to. What is your opinion on this?

 

[Tero]

but the rules are not specific enough how to avoid this in the future.

This is what the TOS says about it:

Leave Table Policy

In order to ensure the best possible gaming experience for all, players may be penalized for sitting at cash game tables, playing one hand and subsequently leaving without playing at least 10 hands. The system will consider such an action as the player refusing the play at that table.

If a player refuses to play at multiple tables, they will be automatically penalized by being blocked from joining tables of the same blind level for some time. The length of this automatic block depends on the number of times within any 12-hour period that the player has refused to play at tables of that blind level:

1st Refusal: No Penalty
2nd Refusal: 5 Minute Block
3rd Refusal: 15 Minute Block
4th Refusal: 30 Minute Block
5th Refusal: 60 Minute Block

If a player leaves a table at which all other players at the table are sitting out, or if they are the only player seated at that table, the action will not be considered a refusal to play and no penalty will be applied.

The policy applies to all cash game variants and tables, excepting Rush & Cash and All-In or Fold.

 

[Mario7]

I got a hit and run warning playing online, that's ok, but the rules are not specific enough how to avoid this in the future.

What kind of warning was it?

 

[fundiver199]

According to the post made by Toro its a general requirement to play at least 10 hands after joining a regular cash table, which mean, it has nothing to do with a "hit and run" policy. The purpose of such a play requirement is to prevent excessive table selection, where players get seated at a table but then dont want to play, because they dont like, who else is at the table.

And to be honest I dont have a problem with it. If you dubbled up very quickly and really dont want to play deep, as apparently happened here, you can just fold the next 1-8 hands, and then leave. This is not something, that happen very often at all, so when you just know the rule, its pretty easy to follow, and it should not be a problem

 

[Fosterbio]

This is not the first complaint about the stupid rules (GG) I remember there was a scandal, like the room is fighting with players from funds in favor of amateurs, in their opinion poker should turn into a casino. I understand their desire to get as much money from players as possible, but in my opinion such a policy is disgusting.

 

[Pete_Stew]

What kind of warning was it?

It was just a mail...When i asked how many hands i have to play in order to not "hit and run", I just got this. (I dont think it is specific enough.)

 

[Pete_Stew]

According to the post made by Toro its a general requirement to play at least 10 hands after joining a regular cash table, which mean, it has nothing to do with a "hit and run" policy. The purpose of such a play requirement is to prevent excessive table selection, where players get seated at a table but then dont want to play...

Thanks for making that difference clear. I do not sit out and stay at a table forever without playing... It is really about the "Hit and Run" ("Problem"???)

 

[fundiver199]

It was just a mail...When i asked how many hands i have to play in order to not "hit and run", I just got this. (I dont think it is specific enough.)

Ok so apparently they DO have a "hit and run" policy in addition to the general play requirement of 10 hands. This I find pretty stupid, because as you say, online there is no shortage of other players, people can try to recoup their losses from. Moreover wanting to "get back at" someone, you just lost to, is a form of tilt and can often lead to bad decisions and further losses. So in my opinion you are almost doing people with this mindset a favour by leaving their table

 

[Pete_Stew]

...if you dubbled up very quickly and really dont want to play deep, as apparently happened here, you can just fold the next 1-8 hands, and then leave. This is not something, that happen very often at all, so when you just know the rule, its pretty easy to follow, and it should not be a problem

If FOLDING 8 hands does the "trick", it realy would not be a problem, but i doubt it.

 

[fundiver199]

If FOLDING 8 hands does the "trick", it realy would not be a problem, but i doubt it.

It does for the 10 hand rule but obviously not the "bum hunting" rule. Their email to you basically just repeat, what is stated in their Security and Ecology policy (SEP):

11. Hit and Running​

11.1. Hit and Running is defined as leaving a table shortly after winning a significant pot, consequently depriving opponents of a chance to recover their losses.

11.2. Factors that are considered for Hit and Running include, but are not limited to, the size of the pot, the number of hands played post-winning the pot, and the frequency of such behavior.

11.3. Potential actions for breaches: WARNING, SUSPENSION, REWARD REMOVAL, PERMANENT BAN.

Another part in the SEP, which is equally vaque and unclear, is this:

6. Bum Hunting​

6.1. Bum Hunting is defined as the intentional practice of seeking out less experienced users while deliberately avoiding engagement with more skilled users.

6.2. User is strictly prohibited from screening for and engaging certain Users, only choosing to participate in games when these specific users are present.

6.3. User is strictly prohibited from targeting specific Users, for instance, by leaving a game shortly after a certain users depart, and/or resuming the game when those particular users return.

6.4. Potential actions for breaches: WARNING, SUSPENSION, REWARD REMOVAL, PERMANENT BAN.

...............................................

Section 6 basically provides GG Poker with an excuse to ban winning cash game players at their own discretion, since there is not a single serious cash game player, who is not selective with, who they play against. All the GG Poker sponsored "site pros" do as much bumhunting as everyone else, but of course they are never banned for it. So yeah it is pretty ridiculous. But as players our choise is to either accept these ridiculous terms and try to not get banned or stay away from cash games on GG Poker and play them somewhere else.

Online Poker Security Ecology Policy | GGPoker

Play online poker with confidence at GGPoker. Discover our security measures and commitment to a safe gaming environment. Join us!

ggpoker.com

 

[TeUnit]

Bum Hunting is kinda like really good game selection.

I thinks its really only a problem in HU, when the sharks sit every table but wont play each other.

 

[Pete_Stew]

11. Hit and Running​

11.1. Hit and Running is defined as leaving a table shortly after winning a significant pot, consequently depriving opponents of a chance to recover their losses.

11.2. Factors that are considered for Hit and Running include, but are not limited to, the size of the pot, the number of hands played post-winning the pot, and the frequency of such behavior.

11.3. Potential actions for breaches: WARNING, SUSPENSION, REWARD REMOVAL, PERMANENT BAN.

Another part in the SEP, which is equally vaque and unclear, is this:

​

I can live with "Section 11". My problem: it is to VAGUE indeed.

 

[S3mper]

That hit and run policy is dumb. I had a spot yesterday where I had "Sit out next BB" got dealt KK UTG+1 and doubled up. Would I be forced to play more or be penalized for needing to leave in such a spot?

Also, I always seem to get dealt all my premiums when racking up. It's a curse!

 

[fundiver199]

That hit and run policy is dumb. I had a spot yesterday where I had "Sit out next BB" got dealt KK UTG+1 and doubled up. Would I be forced to play more or be penalized for needing to leave in such a spot?

I guess... or hope... that their algorithm takes it into account, if you ended your entire session rather than just the table, where you won a big pot? But what then if you were only playing that single table? And this is the whole problem with a rule like this. It keeps people guessing, what is ok, and what it not.

I can live with "Section 11". My problem: it is to VAGUE indeed.

But you cant really make a rule like this less vaque, and since its totally unnessesary to have such a rule in the first place, GG Poker should just get rid of it. Its literally the answer to a question, nobody ever asked

 

[Pete_Stew]

That hit and run policy is dumb. I had a spot yesterday where I had "Sit out next BB" got dealt KK UTG+1 and doubled up. Would I be forced to play more or be penalized for needing to leave in such a spot?...

If you dont use "Sit out next BB" in advance, i am pretty sure, you would receive a warning as well.

Yes, that hit and run policy is dumb, but i am still willing to follow this "rule", because i think GG ist a pretty good site all the same.

 

[Flyer35]

This is what the TOS says about it:

I don't see the point. I've done it after sitting for hours at a table getting nowhere then all of a sudden the cards start coming my way. You're darn right I leave. The only time I leave after just one hand is when I realize I've been automatically bought in to one too many tables. Not all sites force you to consent before putting you in a seat, and some make it difficult to avoid sitting at too many tables.

 

[Pete_Stew]

...But you cant really make a rule like this less vaque...

I think you could. GG is vague on purpose on that matter in my opinion.

 

[fundiver199]

Yes, that hit and run policy is dumb, but i am still willing to follow this "rule", because i think GG ist a pretty good site all the same.

Having rules this stupid does kind of put a question mark around, how good they actually are, does it not? I mean... not a single other poker site has any rule this stupid, as far as I know. So when it comes to stupid rules, GG Poker is literally the worst site in the world. But I do agree, that if games are soft, we can choose to keep up with a lot of stupidity (as well as chinese ownership), and GG Poker is certainly living high on this

I think you could. GG is vague on purpose on that matter in my opinion.

I dont think so. I mean.... what would that even look like? "If you won more than 67,5BB, you need to stay for at least other 28 hands, but if you won 128BB, you need to stay, until there is a full moon. However if the guy, you stacked, is a losing player and on tilt, you need to stay, until he leave". Its just silly, and its plain wrong for sites to try to make rules about something like this, which is fundamentally not against any rules of the game.

 

[Mario7]

Well, GG experiences huge growth, mostly because they attract amateurs. I am not surprised at all that they have rules to protect them (the newbies) or at least to make them feel they are protected. However silly these rules might look. From my experience, it is not a problem at all to follow these rules; they have no practical influence on my game experience. And I play a lot of cash games. It happens to me to leave just after a big win - no problem. It happens to me to enter a table and leave it - also not a problem at all. I use the option"wait for blinds" (the box is checked), so if I do not really like the table, I leave without playing any hand and go to another one. Sometimes I receive a warning that if I leave, I will be blocked for 5 minutes or something before entering the next one, then I make the decision according to the situation.

 

[Station_Master]

This is a really dumb rule, the point of cash games is you come and go as you please. Its not as though you are gaining EV by hit and run and in my experience its normally the fish that leave after doubling up not the regs

 

[fundiver199]

Well, GG experiences huge growth

Maybe its more correct to say, that they "did", because I think, it has kind of levelled out over the past 1-2 years. But they are the largest site by quite some margin now.

mostly because they attract amateurs.

They also attract a lot of pros. According to other forum members, games on GG Poker are not exceptionally soft anymore. That was years ago.

I am not surprised at all that they have rules to protect them (the newbies) or at least to make them feel they are protected.

So does all other sites. However no other site have something similar to this ridicolous "Hit and Running" rule. And would recreational players really leave GG Poker in numbers, if they got rid of that rule? I dont think so. So why defend such a rule? Its clearly bad for poker players to have such rules in place and recieve random warnings and threats from the sites, where we play.

So as a poker community our opinion about such rules should be just as clear as our opinion about DNEGs statement, that "more rake is better", when he still worked for pokerstars. No more rake is not better for poker players, and rules like this one are unacceptable and should be removed.

Its not as though you are gaining EV by hit and run and in my experience its normally the fish that leave after doubling up not the regs

Thats true. Its not even the strongest players, who are most likely to do a "hit and run", since they typically believe, their EV is larger when playing with a deep stack. This is why, most regs use auto top-up as well, while fish often play with a random broken stack.

 

[Mario7]

They also attract a lot of pros. According to other forum members, games on GG Poker are not exceptionally soft anymore. That was years ago.

Well, I believe it is a global "problem" - ppl who play online are not stupid in general. They learn, they get experience. Hard to find a soft game anywhere.

So does all other sites. However no other site have something similar to this ridicolous "Hit and Running" rule. And would recreational players really leave GG Poker in numbers, if they got rid of that rule? I dont think so. So why defend such a rule? Its clearly bad for poker players to have such rules in place and recieve random warnings and threats from the sites, where we play.

Indeed, it is hard not to agree. This rule sounds so stupid. In general, the idea in poker of getting back lost money from the player who won previously is _very_ "greenish" and emotional. In online poker, it should not take place at all. It is most probably the idea copied from life poker, where it is considered bad behavior. But does it really have any real influence on players? Does it work to the advantage of the poker room or against it? I have no idea, it just does not have the slightest influence on my game experience. That is why I asked what the warning was; I had no idea such a thing existed. And as I mentioned, I play a lot of cash games, and it happens to me to leave the table just after winning a stack, I had never seen it.

EDIT: After giving it some thought, I think it actually works against the poker room - by hitting randomly some inexperienced players, making it uncomfortable for them. The regs do not give a shi*

 

[fundiver199]

Hard to find a soft game anywhere.

Or at least hard to find a soft game with real money at stake. The days, where people would sit down at 100NL tables and have no clue, what they were doing, are long gone. But I would not exactly call games like $5 tournaments or 10NL cash games on PokerStars "tough". There are still plenty of fish in online poker, they just tend to play for less money, than they did it in the past.

In general, the idea in poker of getting back lost money from the player who won previously is _very_ "greenish" and emotional. In online poker, it should not take place at all.

It is, and usually its a receipt for playing on tilt and losing even more. So its very unclear, who this rule even benefit, other than maybe GG Poker itself?

And as I mentioned, I play a lot of cash games, and it happens to me to leave the table just after winning a stack, I had never seen it.

So apparently its only seldomly inforced. Which is even more reason for GG Poker to just get rid of it. Coincidentally someone recently revived a post I made back in 2020 about ACR Poker, who back then had a rule about "stalling" in tournaments. Reportedly they had confiscated someones funds for doing this, which he now seem to confirm, if it is indeed him.

But ACR Poker have since removed this rule from their TOS. And while I am not going to take credit for that improvement, maybe poker sites do actually sometimes listed to the feedback they get in poker forums, if its qualified and comes from someone, who actually play their games rather than someone, who mainly play freerolls and complain, they are less generous than before.

 

[Mario7]

It is, and usually its a receipt for playing on tilt and losing even more. So its very unclear, who this rule even benefit, other than maybe GG Poker itself?

As I have added up there - After giving it some thought, I think it actually works against the poker room - by hitting randomly some inexperienced players, making it uncomfortable for them. The regs do not give a shi*

 

[fundiver199]

As I have added up there - After giving it some thought, I think it actually works against the poker room - by hitting randomly some inexperienced players, making it uncomfortable for them. The regs do not give a shi*

Moreover fish often leave a table, if they get stacked. But if I stack a fish, and he leave, then accordring to GG Poker I am now obliged to stay and play deep stacked against someone else, who I did not stack? Like why???? If I was playing cash games on GG Poker, I would just ignore this stupid rule and play, as I wish. Its not like, I systematically "hit and run" anyway, because often I actually like to stay at tables, where its been going well.

And if they still want to "warn" me, like what happened to OP, then whatever. Even if they should go as far as to ban me, all other sites offer cash games and MTTs as well, so its not like, GG Poker have some sort of monopoly, or its a disaster to not be able to play there. At least they dont threaten confiscation of funds for this "offense", which would really be over the top.