[CoinPoker] Heads-Up Ruling: CoinPoker Allows Bumhunting & Penalizes Those Who Fight Back

S3mper

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I would recommend making your case in the Coin Poker Discord if you haven't already. I'm not certain they can 'overturn' a decision but if you politely make your case they may contact support on your behalf or something. At the very least you'll get your argument seen by more CP support including some pros
 
maronza1

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I can definitely see why you’re frustrated, heads-up should be about competing, not dodging tougher opponents. Protecting someone who only plays vs recreational players really feels like favoritism and long-term it probably hurts the ecosystem.

I get that sites want to keep the casuals happy, but letting a player sit out every time a reg joins doesn’t seem fair at all. Do bigger sites like Stars or GG even allow that, or is this just a CoinPoker thing?

Right now it sounds like regs have to fight each other while bumhunters get a free “invincibility shield” 😂. No wonder you cashed out.
 
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13Meow37

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I would recommend making your case in the Coin Poker Discord if you haven't already. I'm not certain they can 'overturn' a decision but if you politely make your case they may contact support on your behalf or something. At the very least you'll get your argument seen by more CP support including some pros
Ill try !
 
MK_

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I disagree with this is bum hunting. If he's playing everyone, he can also look for favorable games. Bum hunting is only targeting specific players and refusing to play anyone outside of those specific players. Saying any time someone sits with a fish or 'x' player when they see them is essentially arguing table selection is bum hunting. With HU there can be a less clear line between table selection and bum hunting but if he's battling regs I don't see how one could say he's crossed that line

I don't have the evidence so I can't see if that is what he is actually doing but assuming it is Coin Pokers ruling makes no sense. Why can't he play with this player if he's also playing with others? What does it matter his reasons for wanting to play VS this player?
...well you're right, you don't have the evidence just one side of the story.., just a simple cursory read of the original post

admitting in his own words of chasing specific players and sitting just to intentionally block players...

that's clearly targeting specific players, I'm still waiting on this email... must be a doozy 😎👍
 
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S3mper

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...well you're right, you don't have the evidence just one side of the story.., just a simple cursory read of the original post
Right, based solely on OPs side of things I'm concluding that it's not bum hunting - If OP isn't doing as he says it could very well be. but people are concluding it is bum hunting based on OPs story which I disagree
admitting in his own words of chasing specific players and sitting just to intentionally block players...
that's clearly targeting specific players, I'm still waiting on this email... must be a doozy 😅👍
OP's definition of targetting as written and the rules definition of targetting are not the same. The rules specifically states that targeting is defined as "only choosing to play against perceived weaker players while avoiding stronger ones." Not as just sitting specific players. If using just the latter as defining targeting/bum hunting then table selection would be against the rules.
 
MK_

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Right, based solely on OPs side of things I'm concluding that it's not bum hunting - If OP isn't doing as he says it could very well be. but people are concluding it is bum hunting based on OPs story which I disagree


OP's definition of targetting as written and the rules definition of targetting are not the same. The rules specifically states that targeting is defined as "only choosing to play against perceived weaker players while avoiding stronger ones." Not as just sitting specific players. If using just the latter as defining targeting/bum hunting then table selection would be against the rules.
I don't think you can use just the part that agrees with your point.... it's not just about table selection....

it's about targeting specific players which he admits to doing .... in his own words he's sitting to block

specific players, chasing specific players..., that's more than sitting at a table waiting,

he should be happy all they said was he was "essentially" bumhunting, no poker site should allow

people chasing players around and targeting them personally, they also said his attitude was

predatory so I don't think we're getting all the info and seeing the whole picture,

..... I'm sure that email is coming any day now😎👍
 
S3mper

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I don't think you can use just the part that agrees with your point.... it's not just about table selection....

it's about targeting specific players which he admits to doing .... in his own words he's sitting to block

specific players, chasing specific players..., that's more than sitting at a table waiting,

he should be happy all they said was he was "essentially" bumhunting, no poker site should allow people

chasing players around and targeting them personally, but I don't think we're getting all the info and

seeing the whole picture, ..... I'm sure that email is coming any day now😎👍
If he's just in the lobby watching tables waiting for 'x' player to sit down to sit him then yes that is against the rules.
Playing or sitting while waiting at tables and then seeing 'x' player sit down and playing against them is not against the rules.

Again targeting is defined in Coin Pokers rules and by their definition he is not targeting (As told in the story). Although he's keeping an eye out for specific players the fact that he is playing everyone gives him that right.
 
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13Meow37

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@S3mper you are losing your time arguing with those guys, they just want to be contrary just for the sake of it, regardless of logic...
Now that they dont have any more ideas to argue, they are just saying the original post is a liar :D

Btw, im not very comfortable with the idea of sharing personal mails publicly.
Here a preview, if you have very good eyes you could have a clue. Like I said Im done posting smart messages to you guys, Ill be trolling like you do.

1757524847707
 
MK_

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If he's just in the lobby watching tables waiting for 'x' player to sit down to sit him then yes that is against the rules.
Playing or sitting while waiting at tables and then seeing 'x' player sit down and playing against them is not against the rules.

Again targeting is defined in Coin Pokers rules and by their definition he is not targeting (As told in the story). Although he's keeping an eye out for specific players the fact that he is playing everyone gives him that right.
Special shoutout to "AboveAverage", who literally ends his session as soon as I start chasing him 😂.

...in his own words he's chasing specific players, that's the very definition of targeting,

the fact that he's playing everyone is not a fact.... we don't actually know who he's playing,

the poker site knows and they disagree👍
 
S3mper

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Special shoutout to "AboveAverage", who literally ends his session as soon as I start chasing him 😂.

...in his own words he's chasing specific players, that's the very definition of targeting,
The definition of targeting in general is not the same as the rules of targeting. CP has no rules about chasing and such a rule wouldn't even make sense because the rules state that if a player is sitting at a table they are expected to play whoever sits. If a player doesn't like this they don't get to start HU tables. Above Average is the one breaking the rules in this story not OP. I say this down below but I'll say it up here too. This assumes OP's story is accurate.



the fact that he's playing everyone is not a fact.... we don't actually know who he's playing,
Sure. I'm only basing my opinion on the story. It's not a hardline stance where I'm knocking down CP's door as I don't have the evidence.

the poker site knows and they disagree👍
Possible that the evidence contradicts OP and this is why they disagree but it's also possible they are wrong. Either way my stance is OP isn't bum hunting based on the story I read but could be if he's not doing as he says.
 
S3mper

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We might just have to agree to disagree at this point as I've run out of things I can say where I wouldn't just be repeating myself. But if OP is telling the truth and Coin Poker reverses their decision you owe me $5 :) lol
 
MK_

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We might just have to agree to disagree at this point as I've run out of things I can say where I wouldn't just be repeating myself. But if OP is telling te truth and Coin Poker reverses their decision you owe me $5 :) lol
... alrighty😎👍
 
S3mper

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@S3mper you are losing your time arguing with those guys, they just want to be contrary just for the sake of it, regardless of logic...
Now that they dont have any more ideas to argue, they are just saying the original post is a liar :D

Btw, im not very comfortable with the idea of sharing personal mails publicly.
Here a preview, if you have very good eyes you could have a clue. Like I said Im done posting smart messages to you guys, Ill be trolling like you do.

View attachment 392309
That's not readable but if you do redo these make sure to black out the email addresses and stuff

But let us know if they reverse so I can collect my $5
 
Sunz of Beaches

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@S3mper you are losing your time arguing with those guys, they just want to be contrary just for the sake of it, regardless of logic...
Now that they dont have any more ideas to argue, they are just saying the original post is a liar :D

Btw, im not very comfortable with the idea of sharing personal mails publicly.
Here a preview, if you have very good eyes you could have a clue. Like I said Im done posting smart messages to you guys, Ill be trolling like you do.

View attachment 392309
Its not that anyone here really cares and waited for those emails lol 😅

wont even bother to zoom in 🥱

U can btw always grey out personal information or just copy the text if u scared to share. Total rocket science that is 🚀
 
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13Meow37

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Sharing private emails would be unethical.
I’ve already exposed enough about CoinPoker across multiple forums, and now even on their Discord.
Publishing private correspondence just to entertain a few trolls here would be a step too far.

To be honest, @S3mper , I highly doubt they’ll reverse their ruling.
They seem to be just as clueless as some of the characters posting in this thread.

Yes, I chase AboveAverage, SickOstrish, and a few other bumhunters who refuse to play me, while I’m here giving action to anyone who sits my tables (regs or fishes). At least AboveAverage got a normal reaction: he just leave the tables and dont block the action. He also doesnt send crying mails to the support. My problem starts when the security team allows them to avoid competition and play only negative IQ players.

I don’t ONLY chase those bumhunters, I also play anyone who sit my tables (repeating again and again for you)

Chasing bumhunters just helps pass the time while waiting for real action.

And here’s why I do it:
1) Because I want a fairer game. Top regs chase me across all my tables, and I play them. That’s how competition works. So if those weak asses refuse the competition they can try to play when Im not there.
2) By sitting these bumhunters, I deny them easy access to recreationals, which means those recs are more likely to end up sitting regs who are actually ethical… maybe even me, if I’m lucky.

Now, if your next brilliant take is that I only open the lobby to stalk three guys (who doesnt play a single hand) and chase them even when they go to the toilet, go ahead.
I wouldn’t even try to come up with a “smart” response to that level of argument.

Anyway… carry on.
You're clowns.
(With the utmost respect, of course.)
 
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13Meow37

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And to be totally honest, if LinusLove or any monster sat me on my most expensive table, yeah: that’s a situation where I’d probably avoid playing.
But I’d just leave and give them all the space they want. I wouldn’t sit out. I wouldn’t cry to support.

Do you see the difference with Ostrish now? Or are you still blind on purpose?
 
MK_

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And to be totally honest, if LinusLove or any monster sat me on my most expensive table, yeah: that’s a situation where I’d probably avoid playing.
But I’d just leave and give them all the space they want. I wouldn’t sit out. I wouldn’t cry to support.

Do you see the difference with Ostrish now? Or are you still blind on purpose?
yeah now i get it......, when someone doesn't want to play you that's bumhunting

.... but when you don't want to play them it's not bumhunting, now if I could only figure out why

you feel the need to police the poker site instead of just playing your own game but you do you bro🤔👍
 
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13Meow37

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Oh right, here we go again.

You’re still pretending this is about someone “not wanting to play me”, like I’ve been crying because I got dodged once.
No. This is about a player freezing tables, refusing to leave, refusing to battle any thinking player, and a poker room actively protecting that behavior.
If you can’t see the difference, it’s either bad faith or serious cognitive delay.

So let me be painfully clear for you, and maybe, just maybe, you’ll stop embarrassing yourself:

I REGWAR. All. The. Time.

4-tabling (or more) regs who come to fight.
Go and ask the real players on CP (ask Korner1, ask DanceATone, ask all the middle stakes players who tried to sit me...)

I play 99% of players.

And for the 1% left I LEAVE. I don’t sit out. I don’t freeze action.

I have NEVER once emailed support to cry about someone being too strong. NEVER.

So don’t you dare try to paint me as some hypocrite bumhunter who cherry-picks games and then whines when it doesn’t go his way.
You're completely off-base, and frankly, not qualified to talk about HU dynamics if you can’t grasp the basics of table behavior.

The only reason this discussion still exists is because a weak player abused the sitout loophole, and CoinPoker decided to protect that abuse.
That’s what I’m calling out. That’s what kills action. That’s what breaks ecosystems.

And you? You took a tiny window I left open: “yeah maybe I’d leave vs LinusLove”; and tried to turn that into some kind of gotcha moment to feel smart in front of your imaginary audience.
Pathetic.
You are pretending on purpose that everything is black or white when there is plenty shades of grey and many colors.

You're not arguing in good faith. You're just circling around with low-effort contrarian bait trying to score a reaction. Congrats, here it is.

Now do us all a favor and stop talking about things you clearly don’t understand.
This isn’t a joke to me. It’s a format I take seriously and defend with integrity.

You? You’re just a noise generator in a thread that deserves better.
 
MK_

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... I'm not arguing at all, .... I just don't agree with your premise, it happens, you'll survive👍
 
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yeah now i get it......, when someone doesn't want to play you that's bumhunting
Avoiding certain players is not bumhunting. Its just table selection, which has always been a natural part of cash games. In live poker most high stakes games are private invite only games, even if they are held in a casino. And this is because, people obviously like to decide, who they play against. If sites want to prevent excessive table selection, then they can make a play requirement, as both GG Poker and pokerstars have done (10 hands). However if you are "chasing someone", as OP admit he does, then you are bumhunting. If you chase a lion, you are hunting it. If you try to escape a lion, you are not hunting it. But apparently this is to complicated for OP to understand :)
 
S3mper

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I just don't agree that's bum hunting. Or at the very least it's a different type of bum hunting then what is the egregious form of bum hunting to truly be bum hunting you need to be actively avoiding ever playing VS stronger players trying hard to play with bums is not bum hunting. True Bum Hunters have outrageous win-rates.

That said the more I thought about it the more I'm against chasing players, they should be allowed to play and somewhat selectively choose who they don't play and chasing them around doesn't allow them the ability to play. And if one is abusing this by only playing the fish and is NEVER reg battling report them. Though Coin Pokers rules don't allow this I think some flexibility from the site and players is understandable.
 
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13Meow37

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I just don't agree that's bum hunting. Or at the very least it's a different type of bum hunting then what is the egregious form of bum hunting to truly be bum hunting you need to be actively avoiding ever playing VS stronger players trying hard to play with bums is not bum hunting. True Bum Hunters have outrageous win-rates.

That said the more I thought about it the more I'm against chasing players, they should be allowed to play and somewhat selectively choose who they don't play and chasing them around doesn't allow them the ability to play. And if one is abusing this by only playing the fish and is NEVER reg battling report them. Though Coin Pokers rules don't allow this I think some flexibility from the site and players is understandable.
This is by far the most reasonable take I’ve seen in this thread, a lot more thoughtful than the garbage others have been throwing around.

I fully acknowledge my share of responsibility here. When I actively hunt those guys, I’m clearly pushing the line. And I understand why the security team might not want to hear my arguments because of that.

But that’s how I am, and I’m not going to change.
They won’t change their ruling either.
So I left.
Still, I wanted to speak out, because I genuinely believe I was fighting for something that mattered, and their rigid rules are killing their own ecosystem.

Yes, technically, I could just report the player every time he sits out and stop following him when he opens a new table.
That would keep me 100% within the TOS.
But I can’t.
Their behavior pisses me off too much. I can’t just look away, I turn into a hunter. It’s instinctive.

I also think it’s incredibly unfair that players like me and other regs are battling each other all day, while these guys just open a new table and cry to support if they get sat more than once. I could also report regulars players who chase me table after table exactly the same way this SickOstrish do, but that's also not me, I prefer to earn their respect by fighting better than beeing this crying B.

So yeah, thank you to the only person here who seems capable of critical thinking. Also want to thanks that "palofps" Admin on Discord who understood my point of view and is trying to get a double check on the situation with the security team, that means a lot for me.

As for the trolls who are only here to bash and meme: go F. yourselves.
You’ll be ignored from now on. I’ve wasted enough time trying to teach people who clearly aren’t here to learn.

By the way, sorry for your five bucks @S3mper :ROFLMAO:.

Anyway, everything’s been said.
Anyone reading this thread can now make their own judgment and maybe think twice before playing on CoinPoker.
Unless, of course, you’re a weak bumhunter: in that case, this room might be your personal eldorado.
Enjoy it while it lasts!
 
primrose

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Most of this thread seems to be fundiver saying

the rules say bumhunting=X, you did X ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

and you responding

it's different because [reasons that your action was in response to something worse] and [motivation for why you did it] and [clarification of you only doing it in specific cases] and [other facts about your behavior that make you more virtuous than fundiver's description suggests]

and then fundiver repeating

ok but this doesn't really change that bumhunting=X and you did X

and then you repeating something like the above, and then loop

I feel like I've seen this pattern a bunch, where someone is just stuck on the moral case and any argument that doesn't engage with the moral case doesn't get through to them. But the rules aren't like this moral arbiter that will bend if you can provide sufficient evidence that you're more virtuous than the person you're fighting with; they're much more a set of laws that will be enforced regardless of whether they're fair, or even make sense. The moral case just isn't relevant here. It can both be true that your behavior is more virtuous and the other guy was behaving in an immoral way, and that you've broken the literal rules and the site acted consistently by enforcing the rules.
 
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13Meow37

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@primrose 💯Totally agree.

Here’s another important issue with CoinPoker and many other sites as well.
This problem can only be solved by implementing anonymous tables or giving the opportunity to the players to change their nickname regulary.

Right now, trackers that read local memory can build hand histories even from spectator tables: pure datamining.
This allows individual players, or even entire groups, to collect massive hand histories without ever playing.
There are even public websites (easy to find with a quick Google search) that sell millions of hands for just a few buy-ins at your limit.

You want a full database on the entire player pool without playing a single hand?
No problem: just pay and download.

In my opinion, this is just as damaging as the bumhunters abusing sitout mechanics.

Yet another solid reason why anonymous tables should be available across all formats and stakes. Not just in theory, but as a real protection for the integrity of the game.

Alright trollz, feel free to twist this one too and tell me I'm wrong again. I’m ready 😂
 
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