[CoinPoker] Heads-Up Ruling: CoinPoker Allows Bumhunting & Penalizes Those Who Fight Back

[13Meow37]

Hi everyone,

I’d like to share a situation that happened to me on a CoinPoker and get your feedback, especially from other HU cash grinders.

I’ve been playing heads-up NLHE for years, and I’m used to the dynamics: regulars fighting for tables, chasing each other, sitting out when needed; it’s part of the ecosystem.
Personally, I’ve always fought back against regs who chase me, out of respect for the game and to protect my action.

Here’s what happened:
- A player named SickOstrish sits first and plays only recreational players.
- Every time a regular (like me) sits him, he immediately sits out.
- I sat him to deny him the ability to selectively bumhunt.
- In response, he reported me, and surprisingly: the platform sided with him.
- Their support team told me I wasn’t allowed to sit him and essentially called me a bumhunter, they said my attitude was predatory.
- Meanwhile, every day I get chased by other strong regulars (Korner1, DanceATone, HusGansen, etc.). I never reported them. I fight them, that’s part of the game.
- The site now lets SickOstrish sit out any time a reg sits him, while the rest of us fight each other normally.
- He gets protected. We get punished.

You know the type of players I’m talking about, and to be honest, I don’t usually care about them when they’re not being protected. Sure, they have a high winrate (around 30bb/100) because they only play vs recreational players, but their hourly is terrible since they have to leave every time a reg sits them.
(Special shoutout to "AboveAverage", who literally ends his session as soon as I start chasing him 😂. Dude, you should’ve emailed support and cried a bit, they probably would’ve helped you too!)

As a result, I’ve decided to cash out and stop playing there. I simply can’t accept this kind of ruling.

In my view, this not only breaks the spirit of fair competition but also actively encourages bumhunting and kills both action and rake.

Have you ever heard of such a ruling before?

Would love to hear your thoughts, am I crazy, or is this as ridiculous as it sounds?

Id like to copy/paste the mail they sent me to warn me about my attitude, but Im not sure if I can legally do it or not?

Waiting to hear your toughts, thank you so much in advance.

Meow. 🐱

 

[fundiver199]

The issue here is, that if you deliberately join tables, where he is waiting for an opponent, then per definition you are bumhunting him, regardless what your intention is. So if the site has a policy against bumhunting, you were violating it. The better move would have been to report him instead, if there are any written rules about, what he is doing.

That being said just play ring games rather than heads-up, and this issue largely solves itself. Heads-up tables invite the most extreme form of bumhunting, and if sites want to prevent this, there is no other solution than random seating combined with a play requirement. Like if you are seated and leave without playing at least 10 hands, you are blocked from entering other cash games for a period of time.

 

[MK_]

I sat him to deny him the ability to selectively bumhunt,

Special shoutout to "AboveAverage", who literally ends his session as soon as I start chasing him,

.... you just admitted to doing what you accuse them of doing, I can imagine the email was

interesting😎👍

 

[13Meow37]

It seems like you're struggling to understand the difference between sitting first and only playing recreational players | chasing bumhunters.
Is it really that hard to grasp? Or am I just missing something obvious here? Sometimes I feel like people reply just for the sake of contradicting, regardless of any logic.

 

[fundiver199]

"9.1.1.1 Bum Hunting: Bum hunting is the act of intentionally targeting one group of players while avoiding giving action to others. Bum hunting includes deliberately targeting a user by intentionally sitting out at cash tables and only joining the game when the preferred user arrives. Bum hunting also involves purposefully targeting a user by following their activity. For example, waiting in the lobby until a desired user enters a game and then joining them in the game and playing only till they leave. It is acceptable under certain circumstances to sit out and deny action, giving action to certain users while denying action to others when you are starting tables, is strictly prohibited."

TERMS AND CONDITIONS - CoinPoker

1. INTRODUCTION Print 1.1 CoinPoker is a decentralized poker platform that allows players from around the world to use cryptocurrency to participate in a one of a kind gaming experience. CoinPoker operates using Ethereum-based smart contracts, and all deposits and withdrawals are completed using...

coinpoker.com

By your own admission you violated the part about "purposefully targeting a user by following their activity", so the warning from Coin Poker is completely correct. The other player violated the part about "giving action to certain users while denying action to other when you are starting tables", and you could have reported them for this. The problem is, you decided to take on a role as "site police", and in doing so you also violated the rules yourself.

 

[MK_]

.. yeah you're missing something obvious, you are admittedly hunting specific players, "they said my attitude was predatory" yep👍

 

[13Meow37]

Thanks for quoting the T&Cs. I’ve read them too. But your interpretation contains several inaccuracies and misses the core issue.

Let me break it down clearly:

🔹 1. "Purposefully targeting a user by following their activity"​

You claim I violated this part. I did not.
I don’t follow the player across random tables, nor do I wait in the lobby watching for his activity.
My usual activity is just opening my table and playing anyone who join it.
I also simply sit any player who open-sits HU while avoiding others. When I see someone trying to bumhunt by sitting first and refusing to play anyone but recreationals, I sit them, just like any reg would do to deny unfair access to the fish.
That’s not targeting a specific user, it’s targeting a behavior. This guy is not even a recreational player. Just a real bumhunter.

There’s no stalking, harassment, or obsession. I don’t join other formats to follow this player. I don’t play until they leave. I just sit the table like any other competitor would. And I also have my own tables where Ill play anyone who join.

Like I said earlier, other regs also chase me, I dont cry to the support about it and simply earn respect from them by playing.

🔹 2. "Giving action to certain users while denying action to others when you are starting tables"​

This rule applies precisely to the bumhunter I sat.

He’s the one:

• Opening tables
• Sitting out the moment a reg joins
• Only playing recreational players

So yes : he violated that clause.

You suggest I “should have just reported him,” I did, and the answer I got was that I was wrong.

🔹 3. Double standards​

Let’s be real: regs fight each other constantly at HU. We chase, we sit, we battle. That’s how the ecosystem survives. But in this case, the site allowed one player to avoid competition and punished others for responding to that behavior.

What you’re calling “violating the rules” is in fact just playing the HU game like it’s supposed to be played : fairly and competitively.

If CoinPoker wants to apply rules consistently, fine.
But then don’t protect bumhunters and punish only the players who challenge them.

---

Let me be clear:
I’m not trying to be “the site police.” I’m trying to protect the integrity of the game, the same way other regs do. And when I get slapped with a warning while the real bumhunter continues unchecked: yes, I have a problem with that.

Does that make any sense to you? Could you understand the difference between my behavior and his behavior?

 

[fundiver199]

If you sit down at someones table, whenever you see them in the lobby, thats pretty much the definition of bumhunting and could even be seen as a kind of stalking. Your reason for doing this does not matter.

 

[13Meow37]

This will be my last "clever" answer, I feel like talking to a robot and losing my time.

Your response demonstrates exactly the problem: you're applying a mechanical, oversimplified reading of the rules, without considering context or intention, which is crucial in any competitive environment, especially heads-up.

Let’s be clear:

Sitting someone every time you see them, in order to exploit them: that’s bumhunting.
Sitting someone every time you see them, because they are abusing the system to ONLY play vs recreational players while refusing action from regulars: that’s defending the ecosystem.

It’s not the act that defines bumhunting: it’s the intent and context.

You’re saying, “your reason for doing this does not matter.” That’s nonsense. In that case, a player avoiding action from all regs while auto-sitting recreationals would be seen the same way as a reg who chases bumhunters to prevent them from exploiting fish, even though one is clearly parasitic and the other is protecting fairness.

By your logic, the guy farming fish uncontested is fine, but the one challenging him is the problem. That’s backwards.

Heads-up poker is a competitive format. If you sit first, you must be ready to play anyone. If not, don’t open tables.

I don’t “stalk” anyone. I don’t sit them because it’s them. I sit anyone who sits first and refuses to play anyone but fish. It could be anyone. It just so happens that it’s always the same few names who do this daily.

So please stop calling that bumhunting. It’s called fighting for action, and it's literally what keeps HU games alive.

Im trying my best to question myself but in this case I can't understand how I could be wrong, really.

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

You followed the guy table to table and they dont want that behavior on their site You can open as many threads about it as you want, their opinion about it will not change.

But its interesting that HU cash is still a thing.

 

[fundiver199]

But its interesting that HU cash is still a thing.

Actually pokerstars also offer HU cash but only from 25c/50c and above, and right now there are only 5 tables running across stakes. So not completely gone but certainly not "a thing" either.

 

[Station_Master]

Would make more sense for HU poker to be in a zoom format as that would eliminate this kind of behaviour

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

Would make more sense for HU poker to be in a zoom format as that would eliminate this kind of behaviour

This is very true. But as long as it is how it is, the site dictates the rules and if they dont want people to follow other people and dont know (or dont accept) "king of the hill", then OP has to live with that.

 

[fundiver199]

Would make more sense for HU poker to be in a zoom format as that would eliminate this kind of behaviour

Checking again on PokerStars it is in fact a Zoom format. There are no regular heads-up tables. A whopping 5 players battling it out at 50NL Heads-up Zoom right now

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

This he wrote on 2+2 in the official coin thread after 1 person finally agreed with him. havent seen any post of those "several pros" though (doubt i ever will) 😅

 

[13Meow37]

View attachment 392235
This he wrote on 2+2 in the official coin thread after 1 person finally agreed with him. havent seen any post of those "several pros" though (doubt i ever will) 😅

Oh, you’re keeping track of what I post on multiple forums? Thats cute.
Sounds like I struck a nerve.

Let me break this down for you, slowly, since nuance seems to be in short supply on your end:
I don’t need to prove anything to someone who clearly has no idea what they’re talking about.
I’ve been in this game longer than you’ve probably been out of your parents’ house.

You think the validity of an argument depends on whether I spoon-feed you screenshots of private chats with pros? That says everything about your mindset, chasing public approval like it’s a leaderboard.
Spoiler: real players don’t owe you receipts.

I’ll keep crushing tables while you collect forum badges and imaginary wins in the comment section.

We are not the same.
You are just a forum troll, lets play heads up together; Ill show you what's a real bumhunting. 😅

 

[fundiver199]

You followed the guy table to table and they dont want that behavior on their site

For me this is pretty much the definition of bum hunting and a behaviour, which poker sites have been combatting for many years. Back in 2017-2019 lots of people were using seating scripts, which instantly got them seated at a table, where a weak player had joined, or at least put on the waiting list. This made the bum hunting blatantly obvious, since tables with a weak player instantly filled up, and it also clogged up the waiting lists.

Sites then banned seating scripts and also took other initiatives like for instance ACR Poker making it, so that you could only see, who else was at a table, when you had posted the first blind. So for anyone with a minimal knowledge about online poker and its history, it should really not come as a surprice, that following the same player around from table to table in a stalking like manner is not acceptable behaviour.

The fact, the rules on this site also state, that you must give action to anyone when starting new tables is more unusual for me. I understand, why they have it, but it essentially mean, that a recreational player, who was first to sit down at an empty table, is then not allowed to stand up, if a known "shark" join him, and he dont want to play with that "shark". So its quite unclear, if this actually protect weak players, or if it has the opposite effect.

In general I much prefer for sites to find technical solutions to these problems or at least make clear and quantifiable rules. Like when are you "denying action" other than, if you instantly sit out? Is it ok to leave a heads-up table after 2 hands, 10 hands or 25 hands? Nobody know, so everyone is left guessing, if they are violating that rule or not.

 

[Sunz of Beaches]

Oh, you’re keeping track of what I post on multiple forums? Thats cute.
Sounds like I struck a nerve.

Let me break this down for you, slowly, since nuance seems to be in short supply on your end:
I don’t need to prove anything to someone who clearly has no idea what they’re talking about.
I’ve been in this game longer than you’ve probably been out of your parents’ house.

You think the validity of an argument depends on whether I spoon-feed you screenshots of private chats with pros? That says everything about your mindset, chasing public approval like it’s a leaderboard.
Spoiler: real players don’t owe you receipts.

I’ll keep crushing tables while you collect forum badges and imaginary wins in the comment section.

We are not the same.
You are just a forum troll, lets play heads up together; Ill show you what's a real bumhunting. 😅

I saw it by accident as i sometimes check the thread there and found it pretty amusing. I dont follow unknowns dont worry.

I know about that stuff and u simply cant acknowledge one and the most important fact: U are (or lets say were 😂) a guest on their site and THEY are making the rules, not u. It does not even matter what the opinion of ur imaginary pro friends is as they are also not in charge there.

Yes we are not the same. Persons can never be the same as each one is an individual. No im not interested in playing u HU as im busy collecting badges here.

 

[skaterick]

we've got clashing personalities here at CC !

 

[fundiver199]

When I see someone trying to bumhunt by sitting first and refusing to play anyone but recreationals, I sit them, just like any reg would do to deny unfair access to the fish.

I have never played heads-up games, but to me this statement makes no sense. Its pretty obvious even just from looking at the SnG lobby at PokerStars (where they still have heads-up hyper turbos), that heads-up is always going to be about some shark sitting at an empty table and waiting for prey. So if you are a "for profit" player yourself, why on earth would you want to join a table, where a good player is already sitting?

Instead the logical action is to do the same yourself and sit at empty tables and wait for pray. Of course if the site has a rule, that you must give action to anyone joining you, then you should do that, but intelligent regs will avoid creating that situation by not sitting down with you in the first place. Of course this is not a very fun environment, which is likely also why, heads-up is largely a dying format.

It’s not the act that defines bumhunting: it’s the intent and context.

For obvious reasons sites can only track the action of players not their intention behind the action. So I as already said, regardless which reason you have for hunting someone around from table to table, the site is going to view that as a violation of their rule. And they are not wrong. There can be many legit reasons, why someone dont want to play heads-up with you. Maybe they dont like your playing style or maybe they think, you are an obnoxious person etc.

I’ll keep crushing tables

Well not at CoinPoker, since you have decided to cash out and stop playing there

 

[13Meow37]

I have never played heads-up games, but to me this statement makes no sense. Its pretty obvious even just from looking at the SnG lobby at PokerStars (where they still have heads-up hyper turbos), that heads-up is always going to be about some shark sitting at an empty table and waiting for prey. So if you are a "for profit" player yourself, why on earth would you want to join a table, where a good player is already sitting?

Instead the logical action is to do the same yourself and sit at empty tables and wait for pray. Of course if the site has a rule, that you must give action to anyone joining you, then you should do that, but intelligent regs will avoid creating that situation by not sitting down with you in the first place. Of course this is not a very fun environment, which is likely also why, heads-up is largely a dying format.

For obvious reasons sites can only track the action of players not their intention behind the action. So I as already said, regardless which reason you have for hunting someone around from table to table, the site is going to view that as a violation of their rule. And they are not wrong. There can be many legit reasons, why someone dont want to play heads-up with you. Maybe they dont like your playing style or maybe they think, you are an obnoxious person etc.

Well not at CoinPoker, since you have decided to cash out and stop playing there

Dude, you don’t need to be a heads-up player to know how to read.
But since you missed the point, let me clarify one more time.

Yes, I also sit first and wait for opponents, that’s what all regs do. They compete for lobby visibility and wait for recreational players. And while doing that, we often end up playing each other.
I never refuse the fight. I play the regs who sit me.

That’s the core difference between me and actual bumhunters.
If strong players sit my tables, why shouldn't I also sit other players while waiting?
When I sit someone who constantly avoids the fight and cherry-picks opponents, I’m not "hunting" him: I’m refusing to let him exploit the ecosystem freely while others play everyone.

What you wrote, about a shark sitting alone waiting for prey; is exactly the behavior poker sites should discourage.
That kind of player contributes nothing, avoids the entire player pool, and waits for whales to generate max winrate.
Meanwhile, we regs are the ones who fight each other, support the games, generate the rake, and play ethically.

Bumhunters will always have around 30bb/100+
I don’t care. Let them.
But their hourly should be crushed by having to sit out and dodge every reg.
That’s how the ecosystem balances itself.

I don’t ask for special treatment , I just ask for fair rules applied to everyone equally.
If I play everyone, I expect others to do the same.
Letting some players pick and choose their victims while banning those who challenge them?
That’s what kills heads-up.

Is that clear enough this time?

Also yes. I agree, I can’t rewrite the rules of a site. That’s exactly why I left CoinPoker.
But I can speak out, and I will keep exposing rooms that make these absurd decisions.

And don’t worry about me; there are plenty of networks where heads-up is fair (king of the hill, Zoom formats, anonymous tables, or just: good ruling).

I don’t need CoinPoker to survive.
I don’t even really need poker.

I agree with the rest of your text.

 

[fundiver199]

You continue to think, that because this player did X, then you are allowed to do Y, even if its against the written rules of the site. Which is basically like thinking, you are allowed to beat your neighbour, when you see him at the shopping mall, because you have seen him beat his wife two days ago.

 

[13Meow37]

I’d like to share a situation that happened to me on a CoinPoker and get your feedback, especially from other HU cash grinders.

I have never played heads-up games

You continue to answer questions and feedbacks that wasnt adressed to you.
I have been patient.
Those talks going no where, I tried my best, Im done.

 

[S3mper]

I disagree with this is bum hunting. If he's playing everyone, he can also look for favorable games. Bum hunting is only targeting specific players and refusing to play anyone outside of those specific players. Saying any time someone sits with a fish or 'x' player when they see them is essentially arguing table selection is bum hunting. With HU there can be a less clear line between table selection and bum hunting but if he's battling regs I don't see how one could say he's crossed that line

I don't have the evidence so I can't see if that is what he is actually doing but assuming it is Coin Pokers ruling makes no sense. Why can't he play with this player if he's also playing with others? What does it matter his reasons for wanting to play VS this player?

 

[13Meow37]

I disagree with this is bum hunting. If he's playing everyone, he can also look for favorable games. Bum hunting is only targeting specific players and refusing to play anyone outside of those specific players. Saying any time someone sits with a fish or 'x' player when they see them is essentially arguing table selection is bum hunting. With HU there can be a less clear line between table selection and bum hunting but if he's battling regs I don't see how one could say he's crossed that line

I don't have the evidence so I can't see if that is what he is actually doing but assuming it is Coin Pokers ruling makes no sense. Why can't he play with this player if he's also playing with others? What does it matter his reasons for wanting to play VS this player?

Thanks.