Germany - new gambling regulation

[adenosine]

That's ridiculous that you are now forbidden from playing play money games, i would love to hear the reasoning behind that stupid decision.

Out of curiosity are you allowed to play zynga poker?

 

[mkdrummey]

Yes it shouldn't affect poker. We hve said time and time again that poker is a perfect hybrid of gambling and skill. And lately the skill levels have been growing so rapidly that the gambling edge has become hard to find.

Unfortunately it's been seen many times over that governments do not regard poker in any way as a game of skill instead they regard it as chance. Also regardless, people can and do go chasing losses in poker and get in serious debt. It is difficult to see how anyone can change perception or the decisions of governments. Who ever thought the USA would still not be able to play on the biggest platforms globally after all this time?

 

[KLDUFF1987]

I really like the idea of the panic button though would be funny if you were drunk and misclick it the 4 table max is a good idea, me personally the work I am in I have seen a lot of them and the way they are.

 

[Adi8877]

I just read the other thread about banning the play money games on ps. Now I see, it is not connected to this law at all. And I understand, why German players number jumped on bitcoin sites. Obviously, most of the German high rollers are out of the regulated eu rooms...

panic button! that's just ironic.....

 

[Daniel72]

Are there any other iPoker skins besides Betsson where Germans can play?

And do they all this restriction stuff or some rooms don't care?

 

[whiskers77]

That's ridiculous that you are now forbidden from playing play money games, i would love to hear the reasoning behind that stupid decision.

Out of curiosity are you allowed to play zynga poker?

I never played this.

Are there any other iPoker skins besides Betsson where Germans can play?

And do they all this restriction stuff or some rooms don't care?

I can play still at Titan. I also read once, that they will stay on the German market.
But I guess, all room need to implement this restriction stuff to keep their license in germany.

 

[uri73796]

in Russia, too, toughen the requirements for gambling games. Recently, some payment systems were blocked by Roskomnadzor, and in this connection, there were difficulties with the withdrawal and entry of funds into foreign poker room

 

[armoko]

I have some questions about withdraws in Germany and from what amount should you pay taxes in Germany ? Its not really related to the current topic, should I create a new one or not ?

 

[Daniel72]

Gamblin winnings are tax free in Germany
(if you are not a pro)

 

[samsonand]

in certain places these are good rules to regulate the type of gambling but not in all because the love of gambling if they are well carried out by each one does not come out harmful if not advantageous

 

[armoko]

Gamblin winnings are tax free in Germany
(if you are not a pro)

I'm definitely not a pro But I'm not sure if Poker is Gambling in Germany. I read some articles where it says that poker not really gambling.

 

[wrzlbrnft]

I'm definitely not a pro But I'm not sure if Poker is Gambling in Germany. I read some articles where it says that poker not really gambling.

as mentioned already here, gambling wins are taxfree in Germany, and pokerwins are taxfree as long you do it for leisure and not for income. But where ist the border ?
Maybe these articles help: (one in English, one in German)
https://www.wunderino.com/en/blog/2...-be-taxed-it-depends-says-the-law-in-germany/
https://www.gkanzlei.de/steuerstrafverfahren-wegen-nichtangabe-von-gewinnen-aus-pokerspielen/

 

[whiskers77]

In my opinion you should start tracking your winnings and buy-ins when you come above the tax excempt amount ("Steuerfreibetrag") with your winnings, when you are playing on a regular basis. And I am pretty sure, that the tax offices will consider this as a regular basis, when you are playing nearly daily some tourneys, what many of us do here already by playing the FRC games.

I am not sure anymore, if it was 15 or 20 hours per week. But if you exceed this amount of time in one week, which is easily done by MTTs, then it can be considered as a subsidiary occupation ("Nebengewerbe"). And you should add winnings of this to your annual tax declaration, when they are above your tax excempt amount ("Steuerfreibetrag") to be safe not being accused of tax fraud.

Usually, I am tracking my results with PT4 already, but unfortunately it also is not always reliable and therefore I am considering to do it additionally with some excel sheet or so. Well, of course you could also add your buy-ins then to the tax declaration.

 

[Daniel72]

This whole thing makes no sense, lets say 5 casinos do the restriction stuff - and thousands of other casinos dont care.
Of course the players will play at the casinos without limits.
(Unfortunately there are not so many poker operators as casinos)

 

[veltins]

Really so unfortunate these regulations . why cant gov leave us alone to do what we like. My funds is struck in pp germany cos of that new regulation as i have moved out of germany and cant provide german residence permit now anymore .

 

[Gibmafuffi]

In my opinion, as a law student in germany, the reformation of the gambling laws has a lot of upsides to it, that didn‘t get mentioned yet.


Since the gambling laws were in the responsibility of the federal states before, we now got something working for all people in germany (in Schleswig Holstein e.g. there were very strikt gambling laws).
In addition, online gambling was just tolerated before. It is legal now, which is a big thing i think. For all platforms offering poker games, or other kind of gambling, and players.

 

[bapfel]

Answer from the minister

I wrote to a member of the Bavarian State Parliament regarding the freerolls. The answer of the responsible minister Mr. Joachim Herrmann implies that freerolls remain allowed. However, the restrictions of the new §§6j GlüStV analogous to the "free games without money gain" (e.g. not for young people) must be observed.

In this respect, I don't understand why pokerstars has banned the play money section. Maybe it will come back when the poker rooms` in-house lawyers have taken a closer look at it.

Here again the new regulation. I could also provide the minister`s email to you @Schnurrharr or Cardschat_Admins if you would ask unibet or partypoker.de, I just don't know whether I can publish it here.

 

[whiskers77]

I wrote to a member of the Bavarian State Parliament regarding the freerolls. The answer of the responsible minister Mr. Joachim Herrmann implies that freerolls remain allowed. However, the restrictions of the new §§6j GlüStV analogous to the "free games without money gain" (e.g. not for young people) must be observed.

In this respect, I don't understand why Pokerstars has banned the play money section. Maybe it will come back when the poker rooms` in-house lawyers have taken a closer look at it.

Here again the new regulation. I could also provide the minister`s email to you @Schnurrharr or Cardschat_Admins if you would ask Unibet or Partypoker.de, I just don't know whether I can publish it here.

I sent you a private message.

 

[Naty2585]

What happened in Germany?

 

[samsonand]

I was surprised by the guidelines that were taken for this country but even so I see that in my country it is much more rigorous

 

[armoko]

In my opinion you should start tracking your winnings and buy-ins when you come above the tax excempt amount ("Steuerfreibetrag") with your winnings, when you are playing on a regular basis. And I am pretty sure, that the tax offices will consider this as a regular basis, when you are playing nearly daily some tourneys, what many of us do here already by playing the FRC games.

I am not sure anymore, if it was 15 or 20 hours per week. But if you exceed this amount of time in one week, which is easily done by MTTs, then it can be considered as a subsidiary occupation ("Nebengewerbe"). And you should add winnings of this to your annual tax declaration, when they are above your tax excempt amount ("Steuerfreibetrag") to be safe not being accused of tax fraud.

Usually, I am tracking my results with PT4 already, but unfortunately it also is not always reliable and therefore I am considering to do it additionally with some excel sheet or so. Well, of course you could also add your buy-ins then to the tax declaration.

Does winning means money which you cashed out from PS ? because I can win money in some MTT and without cashing out I can lose them by playing another MTT so it doesn't count more like winning, right ?

 

[whiskers77]

Does winning means money which you cashed out from PS ? because I can win money in some MTT and without cashing out I can lose them by playing another MTT so it doesn't count more like winning, right ?

It is the real net in my opinion. It does not matter, if it is on your poker account or your bank account. Just subtract the buy-ins from your winnings to get your net.

 

[armoko]

It is the real net in my opinion. It does not matter, if it is on your poker account or your bank account. Just subtract the buy-ins from your winnings to get your net.

Ok and so you mean if poker winnings less than „Steuerfreibetrag“ (ca. 9000€ ) than I should not declare them right ?

 

[whiskers77]

Ok and so you mean if poker winnings less than „Steuerfreibetrag“ (ca. 9000€ ) than I should not declare them right ?

Sorry, maybe I expressed myself wrong. I meant about "Freibetrag" the additional amount of money of your savings. I guess, here it is explained very well:
https://www.gevestor.de/details/steuerfreibetraege-696394.html
And in this case it would be only 801 Eur. But declaring it would make sense still to be on the safe side.

But if poker is your solely income the 9K would fit, I guess.
Sorry, but I am not a professional about tax and laws in Germany. I am reading and trying to figure out by myself what needs to be done. If it bothers me too much, I will hire a tax consultant for the next tax declaration in worst case.

 

[mkdrummey]

Presumably play money games can be played from unverified accounts, that's how it used to be. In that case minors could easily play, which would expose them to gambling and could lead to problems. I assume the regulation will also apply to poker games on social media because there are a good number of them?