Variance - cash games and MTT by Casino.us

NoWuckingFurries

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I was reading this thread about whether cash games or tournaments are more profitable:
and I noticed that some people were saying that the variance is the same in both (which makes sense to me) but others were suggesting that there was a difference in variance between cash games and tournaments.

How can the variance be different when the same RNG is in use for both?
 
lauestla

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I was reading this thread about whether cash games or tournaments are more profitable:
and I noticed that some people were saying that the variance is the same in both (which makes sense to me) but others were suggesting that there was a difference in variance between cash games and tournaments.

How can the variance be different when the same RNG is in use for both?
Well the difference is that when you are involved in an MTT the variance can kill you. When you play cash games there is no need to survive until the end.
So even if the variance itself seems to be the same the consequences are very different :)
 
aurora1207

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The variance in tournaments is greater than in cash games. This is why we need more buy-ins for bankroll management in tournaments than in cash games.

In tournaments, we often fail to reach the ITM even if we play well. On the other hand, in cash game there is not the concept of ITM.
 
YLAN

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Howdy. Variance is generally a measure of deviation or spread. In the context of RNG, variance is obviously same in cash & tourneys. Tho there are several other factors in an overall game, & one of which is player skills. In a cash game you play 1 table of players whilst in a tourney, you would play several tables of different players. Which would you think will have more variance? ;)
 
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As YLAN say, variance is a measure of deviation of results. Its not the fact, that a bad beat can happen. This also mean, that there is not one variance for cash games and another for tournaments, because many other factors are important. Starting with cash games variance will depend on the average pot size, how deep you buy in, and how many players are involved in each pot. In a loose and splashy live game, where people open to 7BB and get 5 callers, variance will be significantly larger than in a nitty online game, where people min-raise and only get called by big blind. And it will be even larger, if you are playing with a deep stack like 500BB instead of the online typical 100BB.

Your own playing style also matter for variance. If you tend to fold in marginal spots, that will reduce variance. An example could be facing a 5-bet jam with AKs. If its a late position confrontation, calling will often be close to neutral EV but will drive up variance significantly, because you either lose or win an entire stack instead of always losing the amount you 4-bet. Variance can be reduced though, if you and the opponent agree to run it multible times, or if the poker site offer all-in insurance (for cash games).

Variance in tournaments also depend heavily on the payout structure. In heads-up SnGs or DoNs you will cash half the time, and the cashes are always the same. This mean, that variance is as low, as it can be for a tournament. At the other extreme we can take a satellite, which only reward tickets to the top 1% of players. Here an average player will only cash 1% of the time, and then he also need to cash in the target tournament to make any money. And for that reason swings will be enormous relative to the size of the buyin.

Variance is also large in traditional MTTs, especially those with large fields. This is because, even though something like 15-20% of the field cashes, a lot of the money goes to the top 3-5 places, and those are difficult to reach, if you compete with 1.000+ other players. And this is the main reason why, if you compare MTTs with cash games, then variance is definitely larger in MTTs. If on the other hand you play heads-up SnGs or DoNs, then variance is not that much larger than for cash games.
 
nelomec

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I was reading this thread about whether cash games or tournaments are more profitable:
and I noticed that some people were saying that the variance is the same in both (which makes sense to me) but others were suggesting that there was a difference in variance between cash games and tournaments.

How can the variance be different when the same RNG is in use for both?

there really is a difference in how variance influences between cash games and mtts. In cash games we can survive it, when it comes, the decisions are up to us, to continue or not. In MTT, however, we have to go with the flow, and even playing well, the possibility of being eliminated is 50% ,
 
lifecoach22

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Variance can be beaten in MTT only by playing the distance, the more you play the less you will be afraid of Variance
 
takinitSLEAZEE

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Tournaments are more profitable, imo. The main distinction is the buy-in/payout. Let's say you buy in to a nlh $1/$2 cash game for $300. If you grind away for 8 hours and are getting it in good shape for an hourly win rate of $60 an hour. You're leaving w/around $450-$500. Not bad, not bad at all. Now, take that same $300 and invest in a $100K GTD where 1st place is around $25K+. If you make the $ and grind to the FT, you're going to clear way more than $500... For one session.
 
Canaldo Kao

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Cash Game the more money you have the more you can play without fear even with the variance, in the tournament the variance is much higher because you can do well in 200 hands and get there at the end one hand eliminates you!:ah4::kc4: vs :ac4::as4:
 
thwenth1983

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Good morning everyone, regarding the variance in cash games and tournaments, in cash the variance is usually much lower than in tournaments, but the profits tend to be smaller too. I really like playing cash games for fun, and over time I got seeing that I am very profitable in cash games, but because it is a much more difficult game to play than tournaments, I have smaller constant profits in relation to the profits from Mtts, which are much larger.
I always read that in cash games the player can have better time flexibility, but in reality it takes a lot of volume to make considerable profits.
 
goaldriversv

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The variance in mtt is crazy high compared to cash games so it’s definitely recommended to have 100 buy ins as a starting bankroll. When I played cash games, I used a 50bb rules bc of the lesser variance
 
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