out of line?

[codybennett14]

Game is 1-2, Lowjack (750 effective) opens to 20 with king of spades king of hearts. Folds to me on the button with ace of hearts ace of diamonds. I 3-bet to 50 small blind calls Lowjack makes it 120. I think for 10 seconds and shove all in for 800 effective. Small blind folds and Lowjack doesn’t take long before calling. He asks if I have aces and I don’t say anything but give a slight nod. I ask to run it 3 times he agrees. 1st board comes out ace of clubs, 6 of clubs, 9 of clubs. I say “ he probably has clubs” he responds “I hope so” and turns his hand over mine is concealed until the 3rd board is ran out. Turn comes a 6 of diamonds and the river is a king. I say “ o he hit a set” he really hit a boat but that’s besides the point. Next two boards run out in my favor and I show my hand which wins all 3 boards. I always wait till the end to show. He than states “ your an asshole” “ f you” and after that hand walks away from the table. The table was silent and I left after that because it was awkward. I asked the table if I was out of line. Alls I stated was “he probably has clubs” and “o he hit a set” nothing else. So what do you think was saying he probably has clubs and that he hit a set inappropriate?

 

[Joe]

Generally in life it's not what you say but how you say it...

Also, people are liable to get upset in cooler and/or bad beat situations...

I wouldn't take it to heart but just something to be mindful of...

I expect the player was annoyed because you didn't turn your hand up til the end of the three run-outs but knew the whole time you were winning.

It wasn't the fact that you didn't turn your cards up until the end but more the fact that your comments coupled with the 'delayed show' probably came across as somewhat of a slowroll.

This doesn't necessarily mean you were out of line but just a possible reason the opponent was angry with you.

Does that make sense?

 

[codybennett14]

Yes that does make sense. Did I know I was winning obviously. it goes both ways for when I know I’m losing running 3 boards and don’t show and muck my hand the last board run out. At the end of the day I can show or muck my hand within the last board being run in a cash game at will but I do see your point.

 

[Joe]

Sounds to me like the individual needs to work on their mental game. That's a them problem rather than a you problem..

 

[dannystanks]

It’s a cash game so you don’t have to show until the end no matter what is said, the money was all in so no matter what you say means nothing. Talking it up is fun, nothing wrong with that. I think the guy was already pissed from bad luck in the past and maybe that caused him to get tilted. I don’t think you did anything wrong. If he can’t control his emotions then that’s his problem.

 

[Emily Trott]

Don't let it get you down. Some people just never learned to lose, or win for that matter, gracefully.

 

[fundiver199]

I definitely think, you were slowrolling the guy by not showing your cards and then also making comments about his hand like "oh he hit a set", when you already had a better set. Slowrolling is not against the rules. But its considered poor etiquette and tend to make people angry. So if this kind of reaction is not, what you were looking for, you need to change the way, you act at the table. Basically just show your hand, when the action is over, and you are going to get to showdown. It lets people know, where they stand, it speeds up the action, and it also protects you from accidentally mocking the winning hand. For me as an online player its total nonsense to not want to show a hand, which is going to get to showdown. In online poker you dont even have that option, and neither is it an option in live tournaments (to prevent collusion).

 

[Pokerpoet2]

Game is 1-2, Lowjack (750 effective) opens to 20 with king of spades king of hearts. Folds to me on the button with ace of hearts ace of diamonds. I 3-bet to 50 small blind calls Lowjack makes it 120. I think for 10 seconds and shove all in for 800 effective. Small blind folds and Lowjack doesn’t take long before calling. He asks if I have aces and I don’t say anything but give a slight nod. I ask to run it 3 times he agrees. 1st board comes out ace of clubs, 6 of clubs, 9 of clubs. I say “ he probably has clubs” he responds “I hope so” and turns his hand over mine is concealed until the 3rd board is ran out. Turn comes a 6 of diamonds and the river is a king. I say “ o he hit a set” he really hit a boat but that’s besides the point. Next two boards run out in my favor and I show my hand which wins all 3 boards. I always wait till the end to show. He than states “ your an asshole” “ f you” and after that hand walks away from the table. The table was silent and I left after that because it was awkward. I asked the table if I was out of line. Alls I stated was “he probably has clubs” and “o he hit a set” nothing else. So what do you think was saying he probably has clubs and that he hit a set inappropriate?

I have had a similar experience, once in a Tournament I finished heads up with another player who shoved all-in with A/K and I snap called without looking at my hand, we turned the cards over so we could see what each of us had and when I turned 6/2 he laughed at me, saying "How Stupid I was calling without even checking my hand".
We ran it once and the Flop and Turn missed both of us, but I spiked a 2 on the River and beat his A/K with a pair of 2s, He then accused me of cheating, as I knew what cards were going to come, even though I was not dealing, and accused the dealer of collusion with me. When I tried to explain that with over 95% of the chips in play I was going to call with any 2 cards regardless of what he had, he just wouldn't except it, he eventually stormed out of the Pub, never to come back.
I admitted afterwards I just felt lucky, and if I had seen 6/2 off before calling I would have most definitely have folded, and folded the winning hand, but with the chip advantage I had, doubling him up would not have been too damaging to my stack. Some players just cannot except defeat when they think they have the better hand going to the Flop and then getting beaten by a far worse hand, but that's Poker.

 

[Ace of Spad3s]

Within the rules of the game, you did nothing wrong. The respons you got is also not your responsibility, but the opponents. So let it slide of your shoulders.

That being said, I view your actions as poor table etiquette. Not only did you slowroll villain by not showing your preflop nuts while all-in, you actually put in the extra effort of hiding your hand strength and on top of that made villain feel like he's ahead while you knew you already had him beat.

Besides that, you intentionally slowed things down by turning over your hand after the 3rd board.

On the other hand, it might be bad etiquette, but if it leads up to opponents making mistakes, it's just another tactic to get ahead.

Just a matter of what's more important for you, good etiquette of bad etiquette with an edge.

 

[codybennett14]

It’s a cash game so you don’t have to show until the end no matter what is said, the money was all in so no matter what you say means nothing. Talking it up is fun, nothing wrong with that. I think the guy was already pissed from bad luck in the past and maybe that caused him to get tilted. I don’t think you did anything wrong. If he can’t control his emotions then that’s his problem.

Exactly I can show when

I definitely think, you were slowrolling the guy by not showing your cards and then also making comments about his hand like "oh he hit a set", when you already had a better set. Slowrolling is not against the rules. But its considered poor etiquette and tend to make people angry. So if this kind of reaction is not, what you were looking for, you need to change the way, you act at the table. Basically just show your hand, when the action is over, and you are going to get to showdown. It lets people know, where they stand, it speeds up the action, and it also protects you from accidentally mocking the winning hand. For me as an online player its total nonsense to not want to show a hand, which is going to get to showdown. In online poker you dont even have that option, and neither is it an option in live tournaments (to prevent collusion).

I don’t believe not showing until river card in a cash game Is dealt is a bad or slow roll. For 2 reason. Number one if I see the players tabled cards and I’ve lost I can muck my hand without anyone seeing what I had. And number two i have had a player muck the winner against me while my cards were face down because they thought that I must have had a better hand. As long as you show right after the river and don’t wait I don’t see anything wrong with this in a home cash game.

 

[fundiver199]

I don’t believe not showing until river card in a cash game Is dealt is a bad or slow roll.

Its not a slowroll in general, but in this case it was, because you had the nuts, and you even made comments during the first run, which might make the opponent think, he won at least that one. Maybe its fine to not show until all cards have been dealt, if both agree to not do it. But when one player has shown, I really can not see any valid reason for the other player to not also show.

For 2 reason. Number one if I see the players tabled cards and I’ve lost I can muck my hand without anyone seeing what I had.

Yes and why is that important? You are slowing down action and keeping players in the dark to gain an edge, which is so small, it does not matter at all. In this case it was extremely unlikely, you would lose all 3 runs. And even if you did, why would you not want people to know, you went all-in preflop with AA? In reality you would probably have shown anyway just to gain some sympathy, your aces got cracked 3 times. So all, you did, was to keep your opponent hoping, he was a favourite to win, while in fact he was not. Which is pretty much the definition of a slowroll.

And number two i have had a player muck the winner against me while my cards were face down because they thought that I must have had a better hand.

Which again mean you are trying to squeeze out any possible edge, you can. Not against any rules but certainly not ethical either and especially not in a home game. To be honest, if I was the host of that home game, I might not invite you back after an incidence like this.

As long as you show right after the river and don’t wait I don’t see anything wrong with this in a home cash game.

I have already explained, why I think, it was poor etiquette, and why the reaction of your opponent was predictable. If you dont like to hear that, then no point in posting here and asking for other peoples opinion

 

[hilary antonik filho]

Game is 1-2, Lowjack (750 effective) opens to 20 with king of spades king of hearts. Folds to me on the button with ace of hearts ace of diamonds. I 3-bet to 50 small blind calls Lowjack makes it 120. I think for 10 seconds and shove all in for 800 effective. Small blind folds and Lowjack doesn’t take long before calling. He asks if I have aces and I don’t say anything but give a slight nod. I ask to run it 3 times he agrees. 1st board comes out ace of clubs, 6 of clubs, 9 of clubs. I say “ he probably has clubs” he responds “I hope so” and turns his hand over mine is concealed until the 3rd board is ran out. Turn comes a 6 of diamonds and the river is a king. I say “ o he hit a set” he really hit a boat but that’s besides the point. Next two boards run out in my favor and I show my hand which wins all 3 boards. I always wait till the end to show. He than states “ your an asshole” “ f you” and after that hand walks away from the table. The table was silent and I left after that because it was awkward. I asked the table if I was out of line. Alls I stated was “he probably has clubs” and “o he hit a set” nothing else. So what do you think was saying he probably has clubs and that he hit a set inappropriate?

I wouldn't show it either, he's out of line, in the game one wins the other loses, as for not showing it, it's up to you

 

[codybennett14]

Within the rules of the game, you did nothing wrong. The respons you got is also not your responsibility, but the opponents. So let it slide of your shoulders.

That being said, I view your actions as poor table etiquette. Not only did you slowroll villain by not showing your preflop nuts while all-in, you actually put in the extra effort of hiding your hand strength and on top of that made villain feel like he's ahead while you knew you already had him beat.

Besides that, you intentionally slowed things down by turning over your hand after the 3rd board.

On the other hand, it might be bad etiquette, but if it leads up to opponents making mistakes, it's just another tactic to get ahead.

Just a matter of what's more important for you, good etiquette of bad etiquette with

Its not a slowroll in general, but in this case it was, because you had the nuts, and you even made comments during the first run, which might make the opponent think, he won at least that one. Maybe its fine to not show until all cards have been dealt, if both agree to not do it. But when one player has shown, I really can not see any valid reason for the other player to not also show.

Yes and why is that important? You are slowing down action and keeping players in the dark to gain an edge, which is so small, it does not matter at all. In this case it was extremely unlikely, you would lose all 3 runs. And even if you did, why would you not want people to know, you went all-in preflop with AA? In reality you would probably have shown anyway just to gain some sympathy, your aces got cracked 3 times. So all, you did, was to keep your opponent hoping, he was a favourite to win, while in fact he was not. Which is pretty much the definition of a slowroll.

Which again mean you are trying to squeeze out any possible edge, you can. Not against any rules but certainly not ethical either and especially not in a home game. To be honest, if I was the host of that home game, I might not invite you back after an incidence like this.

I have already explained, why I think, it was poor etiquette, and why the reaction of your opponent was predictable. If you dont like to hear that, then no point in posting here and asking for other peoples opinion

I agree 100% with you on the slowing down the game part. To many times I’ve seen the river card dealt and the player’s involved do not show. It happens regularly and it cuts into the hands played and tips for the dealer because less hands are played. I’m the player that Either A. shows within 3 seconds of river card hitting felt or B. Mucks my cards and says nice hand to my opponent (actually saves time because the winner is determined instantaneously). I do see your point I’m within the rules not everyone agrees with it.

 

[fundiver199]

I do see your point I’m within the rules not everyone agrees with it.

Slowrolling is not against the rules, but its considered poor etiquette by most. One can argue, that people tend to get way to upset about slowrolling, since it does after all not affect the outcome of a hand. But if you want to be popular among other players, so that for instance you get invited to private home games, then you need to avoid doing things, which pisses other players off. In this case maybe you did not even intend to slowroll, but it was percieved that way, and this is, what matter. By the way this is still the funniest televised slowroll off all time:

 

[codybennett14]

Slowrolling is not against the rules, but its considered poor etiquette by most. One can argue, that people tend to get way to upset about slowrolling, since it does after all not affect the outcome of a hand. But if you want to be popular among other players, so that for instance you get invited to private home games, then you need to avoid doing things, which pisses other players off. In this case maybe you did not even intend to slowroll, but it was percieved that way, and this is, what matter. By the way this is still the funniest televised slowroll off all time:

Mike was madddd … rightfully so.