Limping -- generally bad?

[4rrowwhy.1207]

I'm still new and learning the ins and outs of high level poker. I really want to know more insights about limping? Is it just generally bad to do in poker? Do you have any advice on good moments to use it to your advantage?

 

[kanogott]

I think it depends on your oppenent. Sometimes i limping to mix my game. Normally it is very dangerous to limp and then you play against a clever player which make a big reraise. It is also dangerous if you limp AA or KK and you had alot of players which also limps. If you play against more then 3 or 4 players your excellent hand is no more the favorit if you see all the odds for the other players. So it would be better to make a normal play. In the deeper time of a tourney i limp my big cards in sb against bb an hoping he would steal my chips. So i could generat the best value for those hands.

 

[sandy358]

I'm still new and learning the ins and outs of high level poker. I really want to know more insights about limping? Is it just generally bad to do in poker? Do you have any advice on good moments to use it to your advantage?

There are two types of limping: open-limping (everyone before you folded and you limped in) and overlimping (somebody limped before you and you limp behind)
So, openlimpng in MTTs:

1. 20BB+ deep it is a bad idea, unless you are the SB, SB has a GTO limping range and it is quite wide.*
2. Less than 20BB there are strong GTO limps from different positions, but do not GTO limp unless you are in a strong game, people tend to misinterpret it as weak limping and you are very likely to find yourself five-ways+
3. Less than 10BB there are no limps, the game is basically push-fold unless you are playing against a really weak table of calling stations, in the later case limping becomes viable again as you don't have enough fold equity against those people.
4. Trapping. You can trap with strong hands like AA, KK, etc if you have somebody extremely aggressive on the table and pretty sure that you will end up heads-up against them and will make them inflate the pot for no reason if you limp.

Overlimping:

1. Is overrated, looks like a lot of people tend to believe that if someone open-limped, they can overlimp with all sorts of garbage, which is a false impression. I recomend overlimping with low suited aces, suited connectors, good suited 1-gappers and low pocket pairs for nut mining (if you are going multiway) or isoing with strong high-card hands.
2. Basically, if you are again on a calling station table and you are pretty sure that if you are going to raise, half of your table will call, you can open-limp with the beforementioned hands regardless for pot control and nut mining.

*It is only so for MTTs. AFAIK cash doesn't have a SB limping range because of the rake.

 

[4rrowwhy.1207]

There are two types of limping: open-limping (everyone before you folded and you limped in) and overlimping (somebody limped before you and you limp behind)
So, openlimpng in MTTs:

1. 20BB+ deep it is a bad idea, unless you are the SB, SB has a GTO limping range and it is quite wide.*
2. Less than 20BB there are strong GTO limps from different positions, but do not GTO limp unless you are in a strong game, people tend to misinterpret it as weak limping and you are very likely to find yourself five-ways+
3. Less than 10BB there are no limps, the game is basically push-fold unless you are playing against a really weak table of calling stations, in the later case limping becomes viable again as you don't have enough fold equity against those people.
4. Trapping. You can trap with strong hands like AA, KK, etc if you have somebody extremely aggressive on the table and pretty sure that you will end up heads-up against them and will make them inflate the pot for no reason if you limp.

Overlimping:

1. Is overrated, looks like a lot of people tend to believe that if someone open-limped, they can overlimp with all sorts of garbage, which is a false impression. I recomend overlimping with low suited aces, suited connectors, good suited 1-gappers and low pocket pairs for nut mining (if you are going multiway) or isoing with strong high-card hands.
2. Basically, if you are again on a calling station table and you are pretty sure that if you are going to raise, half of your table will call, you can open-limp with the beforementioned hands regardless for pot control and nut mining.

*It is only so for MTTs. AFAIK cash doesn't have a SB limping range because of the rake.

This was really informative. I had to google some of the terms though. There are really a lot of cons to it but I get some of the scenarios you mentioned. I might try to trap more often when I can. Hopefully, it works.

 

[4rrowwhy.1207]

I think it depends on your oppenent. Sometimes i limping to mix my game. Normally it is very dangerous to limp and then you play against a clever player which make a big reraise. It is also dangerous if you limp AA or KK and you had alot of players which also limps. If you play against more then 3 or 4 players your excellent hand is no more the favorit if you see all the odds for the other players. So it would be better to make a normal play. In the deeper time of a tourney i limp my big cards in sb against bb an hoping he would steal my chips. So i could generat the best value for those hands.

Thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to keep those tips in mind on the next bronze tournament I join.

 

[sandy358]

Thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to keep those tips in mind on the next bronze tournament I join.

No problem at all! Though remember that if bronze level games at other rooms here are as bad as they are at WPT, you are going to be up against a lot of weak calling stations-type players, so going GTO will often not be the optimal play there and limps can get viable. There are some good overlimping vs iso ranges out there, which you should probably check out.

 

[dzsire]

Usually. But if a professional player uses it sometimes and reveals his cards at the end, it can confuse less experienced players. Of course, a professional will not use limping every time.

 

[aldoushach]

Totally agree that open-limping is usually a recipe for disaster. But what about those super passive low-stakes live tables where you're getting 4 limpers almost every hand? Sometimes raising just feels like you're bloating a pot out of position against a random hand that could hit anything.

 

[primrose]

You should

- have disciplined limp-behind ranges from the BN and CO, and maybe the HJ (pairs only); they should contain no strong hands, only marginal hands
- not have an open-limp range except from the SB (forget GTO limps; just raise if you're first in on the BN or CO)

You can occasionally break the second rule if the table is crazy. Like if every hand is raised big and you get a premium, you can limp it. The second last tournament I played, every hand was raised at my table and then I got KK UTG. So I just limped-jammed it. If the person who wanted to raise had ever paid attention to how I played, they'd have known that I have no limping range and this can only be a trap, but I know they wouldn't (and they didn't, they raised and then called the all-in). If you're deeper stacked and there's a maniac at the table who will just keep barelling if you show no strength, you can also limp AA and then just check-call every street.

But those are rare exceptions; if you open-limp regularly, you're doing it wrong.

 

[primrose]

Totally agree that open-limping is usually a recipe for disaster. But what about those super passive low-stakes live tables where you're getting 4 limpers almost every hand? Sometimes raising just feels like you're bloating a pot out of position against a random hand that could hit anything.

Well, most hands want the pot to be bigger because they're ahead of the opponents' ranges, this is still true multiway. But if you have a hand that doesn't, like 88, this can be another reason to break the rule. I've occasionally limped small or medium pairs from early position on very passive tables. But it actually does have to be a very passive table; if you're regularly limp-calling, you'll bleed money. The danger with these exceptions is always that you take them too far because you just want to see flops.

 

[aldoushach]

Appreciate the detailed reply! Sure — those spots where limping makes sense are super rare, and it’s so easy to justify bad habits if you’re not careful. And yeah, small pairs at passive tables can be tempting, but like you said, gotta stay disciplined or you end up bleeding chips.

 

[Mig32]

In general, limping is considered a weak play, especially in competitive games, because it gives away too much information about your hand and doesn’t apply pressure. Raising allows you to take control of the pot, isolate weaker opponents, and disguise your range better.
There are moments where limping can be strategic — like in late-stage tournaments with shallow stacks, or when you’re in the small blind against a tough big blind. Some advanced players also use a "limp-raise" strategy with strong hands to trap aggressive opponents. But for beginners, it’s usually best to avoid open-limping and instead focus on building solid, aggressive fundamentals.

 

[4rrowwhy.1207]

Totally agree that open-limping is usually a recipe for disaster. But what about those super passive low-stakes live tables where you're getting 4 limpers almost every hand? Sometimes raising just feels like you're bloating a pot out of position against a random hand that could hit anything.

I noticed this in some low tables in ReplayPoker. I then started limping with them so that I can check whether my horrible hand would have a chance.