primrose
Visionary
Bronze Level
Yeah I'm also pretty baffled by this, hit and run doesn't increase EV. I don't get why they would want a policy against it. My only guess is that some people complain about it and they want to pander to it... I guess?Ok so apparently they DO have a "hit and run" policy in addition to the general play requirement of 10 hands. This I find pretty stupid, because as you say, online there is no shortage of other players, people can try to recoup their losses from. Moreover wanting to "get back at" someone, you just lost to, is a form of tilt and can often lead to bad decisions and further losses. So in my opinion you are almost doing people with this mindset a favour by leaving their table
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Either that or they looked at live poker etiquette and (erroneously) assumed, this can be transferred 1:1 to online poker. ACR Poker have some tables, which they call "no rathole for 7 days" or something like that, and where the point is, that whatever you left with, you have to buy in for again the next 7 days. But nobody actually play these tables, so it really seems to be the answer to a question, very few people are asking
Pretty ridiculous message. "Serious breach" and "endangering the safety and enjoyment". WTF are they talking about? Safety??? While the policy in itself is not enough for me to call for a boycott of GG Poker, the tone of this message actually is. So in all seriousness why not come over to pokerstars and try their "new" cash games with random seating, which they introduced just a few weeks ago. Or 888 Poker or ACR Poker or basically anything else
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Pete_Stew
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I think it is neither. They want to give you the feeling, that you cant leave just jet and try to make you sit longer at the tables.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
And generate more rake for the greedy owners. Probably thats the most likely explanation.
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Pete_Stew
Enthusiast
Silver Level
They are not specific at all, of how many hands you have to play after a big win. This would be a to easy rule to follow. They want to create this atmosphere, that makes you stay at the tables just a little bit longer.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
As already established its two different rules. The 10 hand rule or "play requirement", as PokerStars call it, is clear and in my opinion completely ok. If you need to leave a cash game table before playing 10 hands, there is no legitimate reason, why you would need to buy into another table instead shortly thereafter. The only reason is excessive table selection, and its ok for sites to try to combat that. The "hit and run" rule is something different, and its not ok.
primrose
Visionary
Bronze Level
Yeah I very much think GGPoker should be thought of as caring entirely about profit maximization (have expressed this before), so I like this hypothesis more. If it increases player volume, then who cares if it makes sense, or if it's overlapping with other rules.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
If we are fair, are all sites not about profit maximization as, if we are honest, most other private companies? Maybe Run It Once was an exception as a site "by players for players", but almost nobody played there, and after a few years they had to shut down again. But that being said I am not as impressed with GG Poker, and many others seem to be.
I think, the lobby is really awfull and looks like something designed for kids, and I find it very annoying, that it starts to play music, as soon as I log on. So while I might some day decide to make a deposit and give it a try, I am in no particular hurry to do so. I dont feel, I am missing out on anything important, since GG Poker dont have SnGs, and I can play cash games or MTTs on any other site as well.
Mario7
Rock Star
Platinum Level
Btw, either it is something new or really marginal, since we hear about it for the first time. So no, I do not believe it is any serious profit for GG. Rather lack of thinking or silly reaction to some amateurs complaints.
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Pete_Stew
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I really do stay at the tables longer after a big win now. Multiply this effect with the number of players and think about the difference in profit again.
primrose
Visionary
Bronze Level
I genuinely think this is not the case. I mean yes, we should assume that every poker site cares primarily about profits, but I think a site like PokerStars still has some decency/some amount scruples that constrain how dirty they're willing to play. E.g., making the reward system entirely opaque so that people have no idea how to calculate effective rake is playing dirty. Making the reward system penalize you for sticking to one format. Making the honeymoon program with 250€ profit and then hiding an achievement near the end that's extremely hard to get (whereas all early ones can be done with at most about an hour of grinding). And so on. There so a ton of examples of super dirty tricks that GG employs, and it genuinely seems to be the case that most other sites aren't willing to go there.
Back in the day iirc PokerStars even had a flat reward structure where you just got points that were equivalent to cents (like 100 were worth 1$). Then they switched to a chest-based reward system with randomization. This would be what I consider a step toward less decency, but at least they still had transparency. It's still nowhere near as cynical as what GGPoker is doing.
SpanRmonka
Legend
Loyaler
Thankfully not the worst curse in poker....imagine if you hit your montsers and lost every time you were racking up!!
Mazembe
Rock Star
Platinum Level
It's a very wierd one, I've never come across such in online poker, the reason we play poker is to make money, the same way I can lose my bankroll ($100) in the first hand must be the same way I can double it in the first hand and walk away, it's only fair. It should not be one sided. I'm really surprised such thing even exist
Tero
Legend
Loyaler
In comparison Stars look pretty good. I hope GG won't be able to finish them off.Pretty ridiculous message. "Serious breach" and "endangering the safety and enjoyment". WTF are they talking about? Safety??? While the policy in itself is not enough for me to call for a boycott of GG Poker, the tone of this message actually is. So in all seriousness why not come over to PokerStars and try their "new" cash games with random seating, which they introduced just a few weeks ago. Or 888 Poker or ACR Poker or basically anything else
Couple of pros/semi-pros I follow on Twitch run soooo bad on GG but have their fair share of wins on other sites
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
As far as I can tell, the only thing, GG Poker does better than PokerStars, is a lower rake for micro and low stakes MTTs. Everything else is worse. The lobby is terrible, they have no SnGs, they have blocked external tracking sites like sharkscope, they dont allow people to use trackers, and their security is so poor, they recently had the first known superuser scandal in online poker for more than a decade. So yeah. I definitely think, GG Poker is a very overrated site. Popular does not mean good, and I hope, both PokerStars and other sites will take back market share, so that competition is kept alive to the benefit of players.
scobido
Visionary
Platinum Level
I wonder if this is the rule in casino slots, after you lose a sum of money the slot gives you back the difference? It seems to me the same in poker games, if I won a good hand why shouldn't I leave as a winner? A somewhat unclear rule in these games of chance and unbalanced in all segments of the game (betting, slots, online poker.)
Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
These mentioned rules are results of the good old poker times, when strategies like the short stack strategy (20 BB starting stack) and the mid stack strategy (40 BB starting stack) were used a lot in cash games.
One element of these strategies was the rule to leave the table after a double up.
You could rarely find a table that was not with 3 or 4 players that played these strategies (full ring).
To stop this hit and running behavior, hit-and-run rules were installed in some poker rooms.
PokerStars Hit and Run rule.
There are some explanations if you google hit-and-run + poker.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
That might indeed be the explanation, but since this is no longer a commonly used strategy, sites should not maintain such rules today. Also if they dont like short-stacking or cap-stacking, they should raise the minimum buyin, as most sites have already done. Its really lame to allow players to buy in short and then complain, if some of them use a strategy of always playing short.
For the recond there are still a few cap stackers (40BB) around. I have seen them on both PokerStars and ACR Poker. And honestly who cares? If fish are allowed to buy in for 40BB, then why should regulars not be allowed to do the same? It sites dont like this behaviour, then just raise the minimum buyin further. You cant give players a choise of, how much they buy in for, and then complain, when they actually use it or use it in a way, you dont like.
Also most sites have already done, what PokerStars did to combat "hit and running", which is to require players, who rejoin a cash table within a certain amount of time after leaving (like 2 hours), to buy in for the same amount, they left with. The rule of GG Poker goes further than that and stipulates, that players are not allowed to leave at all, and this is definitely unreasonable and not comparable to anything, that PokerStars or other sites do.
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Pete_Stew
Enthusiast
Silver Level
If this whole hit and run "problem" would be really about "player protection" or "pokerettiquette" or some other "reasons", that are also not true, it would be very easy to avoid "hit an running" from the get go:
If you leave a table, you have to start with the same amount of chips at ANY other new table (like in "rush and cash").
Why dont they just do that? Think about it and try to come up with a different reason, that i already mentioned!
If you leave a table, you have to start with the same amount of chips at ANY other new table (like in "rush and cash").
Why dont they just do that? Think about it and try to come up with a different reason, that i already mentioned!
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