The Alleged Cheaters Allowed To Play at the WSOP

[EnzoRS94]

so let me get this straight? GGPoker banned Ali Imsirovic and Bryn Kenney for cheating and seized their gains? Just to normally let them play in the wsop without saying a word.
I mean they are hosting the world series of poker, Right?

 

[KUN_AGUERO_KROOS]

From legal point of view - innocent till proven guilty. From public opinion point of view, guilty until proven innocents

I mean, the benefit of the doubt is lost when you were banned by a poker site

 

[DS3]

so let me get this straight? GGPoker banned Ali Imsirovic and Bryn Kenney for cheating and seized their gains? Just to normally let them play in the WSOP without saying a word.
I mean they are hosting the World Series Of Poker, Right?

Well, here is where things get hazy and I feel deliberately so.

GG Poker and Bryn Kenney parted ways quite obviously, when all signs of Kenney and his ambassadorship were removed from GG's site. Though in the recent interview after the allegations were levelled against him Kenny denied it had happened - he said he walked away. That has been refuted. The problem being that people could track Kenney and his stables activities when GG had given him free rein. He appears to have taken his 'friend' Lauren Roberts alone for over $2 million during the games he personally organized on GG. But as there was no public announcement of Kenney getting thrown off GG, there was of course no mention of funds being confiscated, debts being re-imbursed (which were said to amount to many millions) etc. etc.

Regarding Imsirovic and Schindler, that is the later, second round of allegations. GG Poker did admit that they had banned forty players and suspended another forty without giving names, but again, several were easy to track as their sessions ended abruptly. However, GG then stated they had confiscated just over a million dollars and re-distributed it to hundreds of players. At first glance that sounded good, but then it rapidly sounded like PR spin because players subsequently came forward (Kirsten Bicknell, Alex Foxen, Bill Perkins etc.) to say they had lost over a million each in what they thought in hindsight, were suspicious rigged games.

Unfortunately, I think it is something that most are just going to have to deal with and accept it goes on (yup, I know how pathetic this sounds). Some sites and events are going to take a stand (pokerstars/EPT and Triton did) but others will remain unwilling. Then on top everything you now have an (unholy) alliance between GG Poker, Poker Go and the WSOP to control a huge amount of poker tournaments and the subsequent media content generated.

To date, the ownership of GG Poker remains opaque. Personally, I find this odd to the point of unnerving (maybe that's just me) but when you stand back and look at the influence that GG Poker, PokerGO and the WSOP combined now exert over much of the poker world, I can't help but speculate, scratch beneath that surface and I am not sure that everyone would be left deflated.

 

[EnzoRS94]

Well, here is where things get hazy and I feel deliberately so.

GG Poker and Bryn Kenney parted ways quite obviously, when all signs of Kenney and his ambassadorship were removed from GG's site. Though in the recent interview after the allegations were levelled against him Kenny denied it had happened - he said he walked away. That has been refuted. The problem being that people could track Kenney and his stables activities when GG had given him free rein. He appears to have taken his 'friend' Lauren Roberts alone for over $2 million during the games he personally organized on GG. But as there was no public announcement of Kenney getting thrown off GG, there was of course no mention of funds being confiscated, debts being re-imbursed (which were said to amount to many millions) etc. etc.

Regarding Imsirovic and Schindler, that is the later, second round of allegations. GG Poker did admit that they had banned forty players and suspended another forty without giving names, but again, several were easy to track as their sessions ended abruptly. However, GG then stated they had confiscated just over a million dollars and re-distributed it to hundreds of players. At first glance that sounded good, but then it rapidly sounded like PR spin because players subsequently came forward (Kirsten Bicknell, Alex Foxen, Bill Perkins etc.) to say they had lost over a million each in what they thought in hindsight, were suspicious rigged games.

Unfortunately, I think it is something that most are just going to have to deal with and accept it goes on (yup, I know how pathetic this sounds). Some sites and events are going to take a stand (Pokerstars/EPT and Triton did) but others will remain unwilling. Then on top everything you now have an (unholy) alliance between GG Poker, Poker Go and the WSOP to control a huge amount of poker tournaments and the subsequent media content generated.

To date, the ownership of GG Poker remains opaque. Personally, I find this odd to the point of unnerving (maybe that's just me) but when you stand back and look at the influence that GG Poker, PokerGO and the WSOP combined now exert over much of the poker world, I can't help but speculate, scratch beneath that surface and I am not sure that everyone would be left deflated.

What bothers me is how the All-Time Money Earner in Live Poker with nearly 60M$ in earnings decides to cheat?
And how the biggest name on the Poker World these days allows that to happen ?
sounds a bit far-fetched for me.

 

[DS3]

What bothers me is how the All-Time Money Earner in Live Poker with nearly 60M$ in earnings decides to cheat?
And how the biggest name on the Poker World these days allows that to happen ?
sounds a bit far-fetched for me.

Far fetched? Patently, you haven't bothered to follow or research the story.

Kenney has an admitted long history of massive swings in his poker career, where he has been flat broke many times even though he is recorded as the highest ever winner in tournament poker. In fact he owed millions when he made his biggest ever score, $20 million, at the Triton $1 million buy in London a few years ago. Cheating allegations have been made against Kenney for years. In fact in his youth he was reportedly kicked out of a national youth championship for Magic The Gathering for cheating.

Again, if you had actually followed the story you would know that Kenney was the first player with a big reputation that GG Poker brought in as an ambassador. Then quite abruptly, it was noticed that GG Poker completely scrubbed any sign of Kenney from their site and any promotional materials. When questioned on the disappearance, they admitted they had parted ways with Kenney, though offered no explanation as to why.

Lauren Roberts has confirmed many of the allegations levelled against Bryn Kenney, and people have tracked her losses over the period of games specified which Kenney was organizing the games as her 'friend'. Through this period Kenney often stayed at her house. Kenney and his horses took her for over $ 2 million. GG Poker was allowing him free rein behind the scenes to organize such games. Kenney himself has admitted his role in pushing those games as he was also receiving rake back as his stable/agencies brought players to GG.

Regarding the second round of cheating, you appear to have missed the fact GG Poker itself was responsible for making the matter public when it was announced they had banned forty players and suspended another forty. Between them Imsirovic and Schindler have over $53 million in earnings. They have been banned from poker stars, GG Poker, the European Poker Tour and from Triton Poker Series. Do you find it 'far fetched' that they are cheaters also?

 

[apLike]

I think it is useless to fight with such people, they will again find an opportunity to circumvent the rules.

 

[jsnake716]

This is what happens when you are involved with a "game" (not really a game at all), which by it's very nature is hard to regulate. The owners of Casino's are the only people who can actually stop someone from playing and how can they do that because of guesses, accusations, but nothing which can actuall be considered "illegal".

Do not misunderstand me, I do not want a government body to get involved because they are just as corrupt as players who are willing to abuse the "norms" to gain an edge. How do you prove someone is using RTA?? You actually can't prove it, all you can do is assume. I am not sure what will end up happening to the industry but banning people on someone else's say so is NOT the right thing to do. EDIT: Let me add, I think Bryn Kenney is a real P.O.S. so I am in no way defending him. I am speaking in general terms

 

[veltins]

Cheaters should not be allowed to play. This looks bad

 

[frazzle1991]

it is sad to see and does nothing to deter others from following in their footsteps

 

[MikeCarasone]

Rule breakers, cheaters, scammers and offenders of TOS, should all be banned. At the very least suspensions should be given.

 

[skaterick]

may the best computer program triumph ...... thats what it will boil down to eventually . i realize 'Modern Man' cant go 5 minutes without using a smart phone , but i believe live players shouldnt be allowed to access them at the table . way too many charts , Apps , aids + info available with a simple scroll

 

[Poker Orifice]

GGPoker has launched a Poker Integrity Council to Blacklist Cheaters - they will now also be working with WSOP to install an industry-wide ban (other live tournament operators listed were WPT, Triton Poker, Poker After Dark, Kings Casino, Asian Poker Tour, & many others.
There was an article written yesterday about it, by Jon Sofen.

 

[No Bologna]

That's BS. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Bad for poker.

 

[DS3]

This is interesting, though a few things strike me as a little odd.

First that it is GG claiming to take the initiative after being the site which hosted the last two scandals. Perhaps they really are trying to clean up their act now they are applying for various licenses to enter the north American markets. But, I'd appreciate them coming clean with how the cheating was allowed and who was involved. Is this blacklist a behind the scenes thing or will they go public? It does not sound as though they will out people.

Does this only apply to future cheating incidents and the past offenders get off relatively scott free?

I find it odd that GG Poker has listed all the partners yet several of them have entertained Kenny, Imsirovic and Schindler both on television and at the WSOP recently. However, the EPT which were the first to say enough! a couple of months ago is not listed as a partner in the initiative.

That said, if this manages to put some people on notice then its a positive. All the guys involved in the council have credibility. But, personally if I see the likes of Bryn Kenney rocking up to play High Stakes Poker again or Schindler and Imsirovic enter the last few high rollers in this years WSOP then I'll take it as not much more than posturing.

Personally, what I find the most perplexing about GG Poker is that years into operations, and now attempting to be 100% legit in certain markets, the ownership structure essentially remains opaque. GG Poker seem quite determined to keep the matter hidden from the public.

 

[veltins]

Shouldn't be too surprised when the likes of Chris Ferguson were allowed back in and even scooped player of the year a few years back

Ppl do have short memory and forget the fact how he scammed and destroyed so many ppl’s lives. They forget things and he comes back like nothing has happened

 

[DS3]

This is a little odd.

I am sure we all agree, any move to ban cheaters is better than none but I get the distinct impression this is also a PR exercise. A few days ago we were pointed to a Pokernews article with GG Poker announcing the Poker Integrity Council along with many partners in an effort to completely ban online cheaters from live events. That article was published July 1st.

Great. Except for the fact that several of those involved have been allowing known cheaters to play in recent weeks (at the WSOP and PokerGo studios etc). I also pointed out I found it odd that PokerStars was not involved as they appear to have been the more active in this area and they had barred Imsirovic and Schindler at the European Poker Tour in Monte Carlo (late April 28 to May7)

So today I open Pokernews to find an article saying PokerStars is banning online cheaters from live events. Once again, great but already known. Then I looked at the byline and date to realize that both announcements were written on the same day (July 1). The PokerStars article might have been published within the 'online' section and now moved to the front page. But reading the article carefully it would appear that PokerStars actually announce before GG Poker and friends.

Nevermind.

What is increasingly apparent are these bans will not be made public. I assume barring players without public announcements avoids certain legal pitfalls but it will be a shame if these cheaters are never called out. Further, this also allows the sites to cover their tracks. When GG Poker announced they had banned 40 players and suspended another 40, they also noted they had confiscated $1.175 million dollars and redistributed it to 4,000 players in total - which came to $293 dollars on average. Sort of impressive at the time.

However as these latest scandals built from 2021 into 2022 more and more people came forward with accusations the frauds perhaps ran to the multi millions with one person being shown to have lost over 2 million dollars alone (with no indication she was ever compensated). So, I want to be enthused but the skeptic in me says that cheaters will not actually be exposed, nor will the true extent of their cheating in terms of dollar value.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Ppl do have short memory and forget the fact how he scammed and destroyed so many ppl’s lives. They forget things and he comes back like nothing has happened

I must have forgotten as well because I don't remember it quite like that ^

 

[ikescherer]

The WSOP should follow the EPT and Triton patterns and keep cheaters from playing.
Imsirovic seems to want to whiten at the WSOP because promises to donate 50% of his profits to charity in all WSOP events he plays with buy ins under $25,000. He'll give the money, assuming there are profits, to the St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

 

[ratbat615]

Ali Imsirovic reaching the final table of the 100K High Roller is a proof that Karma is not a real thing

There’s a lot of people who get rich from doing evil things and they are striving in life and they have power to change things so yes karma does not Exist.

 

[DS3]

This is a sad footnote regarding cheating within poker and the gulf which exists between the indignation (of the public and some players) and the reality some of the highest profile cheaters have been rehabilitated during the WSOP.

Though the cheating allegations were leveled at tens of people (according to GG at least eighty people in the latest scandal) three high profile players were outed this year – Bryn Kenney, Ali Imsirovic and Jake Schindler. I guess I am one of those older fashioned people who assume such accusations result in shame and, at least for an initial spell, a desire to lower one’s profile. Not these dudes. And this played out with several parties making a song and dance about ‘blacklists’ and then the announcement of the Poker Integrity Council.

All three showed up to play at the WSOP. I noted Bryn Kenney had already been featured again on High Stakes Poker at PokerGo, a jarring note to many and some high profile players expressed their annoyance. However, it been informative to watch the coverage through the end of the series and realize there has been a deliberate effort to rehabilitate these guys. I’ll cite examples which purposefully have been edited into coverage, all from the main event.

For example, Pokernews when reporting on the main event first day featured Bryn Kenney in their headline shot as one of the chip leaders. That would be Bryn vs 8,660 others they could have shown. Then there were ‘B roll’ shots of Jake Schindler sat in the field in the PokerGo coverage. Ali Imsirovic got moved to feature table for a whole session.

Bryn Kenney then showed up for a quick hello with Remko Rinkema on the PokerGo vlog and then did likewise on the Lexi Gavin vlog. As I had promoted the Lexi Gavin vlogs, I felt letdown. I know that Lexi Gavin doesn’t edit the posts herself but it was obviously a choice to show Kenney if even for a few seconds. And suspicions were confirmed when it happened a second time and then later in the vlog Lexi Gavin when Bob made a joke about cheating Lexi then said “ I love Bryn personally, I’ve known Bryn for a really long time, I think he’s a good guy”. Seriously?

Listen, I live in the real world, there are gray areas and know if I was friends with someone who had a dubious side it would be hard to distance your self completely (but not impossible). However the one thing I would do is keep my thoughts to myself and I wouldn’t support them in a public way. The fact is none of these little cameos are by accident. Choices have been made to feature them in a small but obvious manner at times and I have genuinely been left dumbfounded by the decision.

I’m reminded of what Matt Berkey said at the height of the scandals, that the reality was some in the poker world were okay with cheating because at its core it represents the ability to employ any edge for gain. As the WSOP winds down all I can say is I have to agree with Berkey.

The fact is there has been an effort made to show these guys remain part of the poker community when it would have been easier to have ignored them. Can you draw any conclusion but, for all the posturing, the industry itself does not actually care that much?

 

[Poker Orifice]

This is a sad footnote regarding cheating within poker and the gulf which exists between the indignation (of the public and some players) and the reality some of the highest profile cheaters have been rehabilitated during the WSOP.

Though the cheating allegations were leveled at tens of people (according to GG at least eighty people in the latest scandal) three high profile players were outed this year – Bryn Kenney, Ali Imsirovic and Jake Schindler. I guess I am one of those older fashioned people who assume such accusations result in shame and, at least for an initial spell, a desire to lower one’s profile. Not these dudes. And this played out with several parties making a song and dance about ‘blacklists’ and then the announcement of the Poker Integrity Council.

All three showed up to play at the WSOP. I noted Bryn Kenney had already been featured again on High Stakes Poker at PokerGo, a jarring note to many and some high profile players expressed their annoyance. However, it been informative to watch the coverage through the end of the series and realize there has been a deliberate effort to rehabilitate these guys. I’ll cite examples which purposefully have been edited into coverage, all from the main event.

For example, Pokernews when reporting on the main event first day featured Bryn Kenney in their headline shot as one of the chip leaders. That would be Bryn vs 8,660 others they could have shown. Then there were ‘B roll’ shots of Jake Schindler sat in the field in the PokerGo coverage. Ali Imsirovic got moved to feature table for a whole session.

Bryn Kenney then showed up for a quick hello with Remko Rinkema on the PokerGo vlog and then did likewise on the Lexi Gavin vlog. As I had promoted the Lexi Gavin vlogs, I felt letdown. I know that Lexi Gavin doesn’t edit the posts herself but it was obviously a choice to show Kenney if even for a few seconds. And suspicions were confirmed when it happened a second time and then later in the vlog Lexi Gavin when Bob made a joke about cheating Lexi then said “ I love Bryn personally, I’ve known Bryn for a really long time, I think he’s a good guy”. Seriously?

Listen, I live in the real world, there are gray areas and know if I was friends with someone who had a dubious side it would be hard to distance your self completely (but not impossible). However the one thing I would do is keep my thoughts to myself and I wouldn’t support them in a public way. The fact is none of these little cameos are by accident. Choices have been made to feature them in a small but obvious manner at times and I have genuinely been left dumbfounded by the decision.

I’m reminded of what Matt Berkey said at the height of the scandals, that the reality was some in the poker world were okay with cheating because at its core it represents the ability to employ any edge for gain. As the WSOP winds down all I can say is I have to agree with Berkey.

The fact is there has been an effort made to show these guys remain part of the poker community when it would have been easier to have ignored them. Can you draw any conclusion but, for all the posturing, the industry itself does not actually care that much?

I don't think it's fair to think a conclusion can be drawn based upon some Pokernews coverage.
BUT, if you were to read through many of the MainEvent updates, often there are many comments levelled at the cheaters (& repeatedly). They have at least attempted to bring it to the poker community's attention.... & really how much more could they have done? (don't show any pictures of them... pretending they're not there?)
A bit of a stir on Twitter, via Ryan Leng's recent posts. Seems a big fail on his part but does give a better picture of the unrest amongst a large number of poker players & pros.

 

[DS3]

I don't think it's fair to think a conclusion can be drawn based upon some Pokernews coverage.
BUT, if you were to read through many of the MainEvent updates, often there are many comments levelled at the cheaters (& repeatedly). They have at least attempted to bring it to the poker community's attention.... & really how much more could they have done? (don't show any pictures of them... pretending they're not there?)
A bit of a stir on Twitter, via Ryan Leng's recent posts. Seems a big fail on his part but does give a better picture of the unrest amongst a large number of poker players & pros.

I am not drawing a conclusion simply on Pokernews coverage - that was one example. But as I noted, they also featured in various clips of the main event coverage (including Imsirovic on a feature table) and then PokerGo clips/vlog as well as Lexi Gavin's vlogs. None of it was random.

Yes, in all these instances they could have been ignored and that would have been easier to do - it was patently a choice to feature Bryn Kenney's picture on the first day wrap up or example. But the reality is I am quite resigned to the idea that any actions will be going forward (the past apparently absolved) and my guess will be that matters are kept private and the public will simply be told some player was thrown off a site. I do not have much faith that bans in live tournaments in the US will be implemented, but we shall see.

I checked Ryan Leng's Twitter after you made note of it and yeah, it would seem that quite a few people believed GG Poker ground zero for cheaters. I've pointed out repeatedly both the cheaters and their targets mostly appeared to be playing from within the States which over that span of years was illegal and no one has either probed into that or demanded an explanation from GG itself.

I presume that would open up an even vaster can of worms.

 

[DS3]

....and Matt Berkey weighs in on the cheaters being featured in the media on the latest Only Friends podcast. As I had said, deliberate choices were made here. The takedown starts at 58 minutes in...

 

[EmptyHouse]

Bryn Kenney is doing well at GGPoker. This week he made his way to the GGPoker tables again. He made the final table of the Super MILLIONS event, finishing in 2nd place ($ 190,070). It became clear that his account had not been banned or had been restored.

 

[DS3]

Bryn Kenney is doing well at GGPoker. This week he made his way to the GGPoker tables again. He made the final table of the Super MILLIONS event, finishing in 2nd place ($ 190,070). It became clear that his account had not been banned or had been restored.

I'd already made note of Kenney playing back on GG in the 'blacklist' thread.

I have consistently maintained one thing, that Kenney in particular and then to a degree Schindler and Imsirovic had GG Poker over a barrel.

GG Poker allowed Kenney to run rampant on their site before their drive to go 'legit' in North America. His agencies, his stables, his throwing private games to target marks, his rakeback etc etc. This is not anything which is in dispute as Kenney has admitted to all those things. What is in dispute is just how much he bilked from certain individuals. Lauren Roberts sharkscope confirmed she lost over $2 million over a short span in games Kenney and his stable were running.

However, on a simple level, Kenney and his agents were recruiting players to GG predominantly from the US though it was illegal for US based players to play at the site. Which meant one of two things. GG allowed US players to use the site directly or they encouraged the use of VPN's to access the site - either if which was breaking the law ( I mean, anyone got any alternative explanation?)

So my position has been Kenney has always had leverage over GG and this would explain why at the WSOP this year all three of the key cheaters (and please remember there are at least forty others that were never revealed) were allowed to roll up and play even though certain entities such as GG were fronting there would be blacklists and Poker Integrity Councils etc.

As I have posed already, my guess would be no retroactive cross industry (as in online and live poker) bans will ever be placed and said Poker Integrity Council will infrequently release a vague statement about a player being banned (they will remain anonymous of course) some monies confiscated with other players reimbursed (again all in a vague manner).

I wish it were otherwise (and that I was proven wrong) but all the indications to date are that 'black lists' and 'integrity' are little more than window dressing. What actually transpired at GG over an extended period is going to remain buried.