Las Vegas shooting:64 year old Gunman Stephen Paddock kills over 50 people

[Zorba]

I don't even see a military use.

You're right, I thought that after I wrote it.

:top:

 

[rifflemao]

After watching the video I noticed that he keep saying confiscation, and he said firearms were banned here, but they aren't, that's the lawyer speaking, what he needs to speak as, is a human being, it isn't confiscation when it is handed in voluntarily, when people start wanting to remove the inappropriate weapons more and more will be off the street then hopefully the rest will get confiscated when discovered by the authorities, the sound of rapid fire with or with high cap mags isn't mistakable, people have to become pro active and report what they hear and see and not leave it to just the authorities to find them. The idiots that you really don't want to have those types of weapons won't be able to help themselves, the need to show them off or shoot beer cans is irresistible to them.

It's hard for me to imagine people willingly turning in their guns here. One guy on FB mentioned that we should stop calling it gun control, and I think he's right. As soon as people hear that phrase, it makes them want to dig their heals in. I sometimes think nothing will get done about the most dangerous guns until some politician or NRA person loses a son or daughter in one of these attacks. It always happens to someone and somewhere else, so I think they just don't get it.

As for confiscation, I'm trying to imagine law enforcement showing up at Ted Nugent's home to take away his assault rifles. Some of my cousins want him to be president.

I know that fear and how the NRA are, they came here when gun control was being discussed and they used the same argument to stir up the nutters, and that brings me back to should I fear going to the US, I imagine most rural places would be safe but if the locals fear being shot then I should be shit scared, if I go almost anywhere here I don't have that fear. (exceptions would be things like climbing over the back fence of a bike club at night, make that anytime of the day )


Maybe an "ENOUGH is ENOUGH fight for gun control" bumper sticker is needed, hopefully people will start to realise that enough is enough, it's time to act like grown ups and talk instead of draw.

It will be a huge job but it has to start somewhere and that somewhere is the people wanting to, more than wanting to cling to the 2nd.

I think a lot of us lost hope when proposed legislation failed after Sandy Hook. I mean if that wasn't enough to convince politicians and the gun industry, I don't know what is, except if some of their own were to be affected.

I don't think you should fear coming to the US, and particularly not Vegas. There will be heightened security during outdoor events, and probably even law enforcement snipers on roofs. Casino guests will be more carefully watched, and there will be cops on the street, in uniform and in plain clothes. They'll do whatever they can to make sure people feel safe and that Vegas doesn't lose tourism dollars.

Give us lots of notice before you arrive though, so we can do a meet up!

 

[WVHillbilly]

Looks like the NRA has finally "come to their senses" and will oppose banning bump stocks after-all.

http://thehill.com/regulation/355183-nra-comes-out-against-legislation-banning-bump-stocks

 

[Andrei Lisovets]

This is certainly a great tragedy, the hotel security service has worked very badly, I do not understand how it was possible to carry 23 weapons and thousands of cartridges to the room !!!

 

[BBr3]

What was the motive, why is it taking so long to figure out the motive? I didn't think people do something like this with no motive at all.

 

[belladonna05]

It's hard for me to imagine people willingly turning in their guns here. One guy on FB mentioned that we should stop calling it gun control, and I think he's right. As soon as people hear that phrase, it makes them want to dig their heals in. I sometimes think nothing will get done about the most dangerous guns until some politician or NRA person loses a son or daughter in one of these attacks. It always happens to someone and somewhere else, so I think they just don't get it.

As for confiscation, I'm trying to imagine law enforcement showing up at Ted Nugent's home to take away his assault rifles. Some of my cousins want him to be president.








I don't think you should fear coming to the US, and particularly not Vegas. There will be heightened security during outdoor events, and probably even law enforcement snipers on roofs. Casino guests will be more carefully watched, and there will be cops on the street, in uniform and in plain clothes. They'll do whatever they can to make sure people feel safe and that Vegas doesn't lose tourism dollars.

Give us lots of notice before you arrive though, so we can do a meet up!

I am having a debate with an avid 2nd amendment supporter over in facebook now. My words to him was I didn't want all guns banned, I wanted some common sense legislation over people being able to amass assault weapons with basically no checks in their purchase of them. I then asked him what if any kind of measures he would support to prevent something like this happening again. His answer was basically we can't stop this from happening so why even try.

I 2nd that Vegas is safe part except for all these amosexuals who think guns are the answer, including a lot of our trigger happy policeman. Now I need to clarify that I live in Indiana where the cops aren't so trigger happy but the amosexuals are. I've only had 2 guns drawn around me in my lifetime with no one getting shot thank goodness, only one of them was directed at me (it was a biker, knocked on the door "wrong")

 

[Zorba]

It's hard for me to imagine people willingly turning in their guns here. One guy on FB mentioned that we should stop calling it gun control, and I think he's right. As soon as people hear that phrase, it makes them want to dig their heals in. I sometimes think nothing will get done about the most dangerous guns until some politician or NRA person loses a son or daughter in one of these attacks. It always happens to someone and somewhere else, so I think they just don't get it.

As for confiscation, I'm trying to imagine law enforcement showing up at Ted Nugent's home to take away his assault rifles. Some of my cousins want him to be president.

I can understand that handing in firearms willingly will be hard for you guys, especially after such a long history with firearms and because of the 2nd, you also have a much larger population than we do here, so more nutters are out there unfortunately with easy access to firearms. I too said fk the govt when it first was mentioned here but then I realised that the firearms that I have are not what they are wanting to get off the streets.


Now here's the thing where a lot of people are going wrong, the authorities are not going to go door to door to take peoples firearms, they haven't got the manpower, that's just another scare tactic of the NRA, it's about the people wanting to fix up decades of inaction and wanting to change what they think is a birthright and not a privilege, with some people it probably wouldn't be such a bad idea if the authorities take what shouldn't be in possession of certain people even if they purchased them legally, they can do that now with felons in the states if I recall correctly.

I think a lot of us lost hope when proposed legislation failed after Sandy Hook. I mean if that wasn't enough to convince politicians and the gun industry, I don't know what is, except if some of their own were to be affected.

I don't think you should fear coming to the US, and particularly not Vegas. There will be heightened security during outdoor events, and probably even law enforcement snipers on roofs. Casino guests will be more carefully watched, and there will be cops on the street, in uniform and in plain clothes. They'll do whatever they can to make sure people feel safe and that Vegas doesn't lose tourism dollars.

Give us lots of notice before you arrive though, so we can do a meet up!

If hope was lost after Sandy Hook then your country needs to not let the deaths of all the innocent people be forgotten this time, it's no good having memorials to the victims and foundations in their names if the weapons that caused the tragedies are still allowed out there, the conversation must continue and not only be spoken about after a tragedy.


As for visiting the states I am over-dramatising, I'm not really afraid but I can't fathom why everyone is in so much fear of each other and feel the need to have handguns. We don't really have that fear here as we know that handguns are very scarce. In any country if someone wants to do mass harm they will, but the extent of the incident will depend on what weapons are available to them.

Then there's the nutters that have replied in threads about being ready and willing to draw if they hear gunfire and try to take the "bad" guy out if they can, some even thought shoot first and ask questions later was OK, I would fear them...smh... that would suck if you were one of the innocents fleeing the area only to run into gunfire from the direction of the safe area. That mentality needs to change.

Makes me wonder how much they value life.

Your area would be one I would visit when in the States, I'd love to sit back and have a beer with you if I'm ever allowed in, the sound of helicopters is getting annoying.

:top: :sheep:

 

[rifflemao]

I am having a debate with an avid 2nd amendment supporter over in facebook now. My words to him was I didn't want all guns banned, I wanted some common sense legislation over people being able to amass assault weapons with basically no checks in their purchase of them. I then asked him what if any kind of measures he would support to prevent something like this happening again. His answer was basically we can't stop this from happening so why even try.

I 2nd that Vegas is safe part except for all these amosexuals who think guns are the answer, including a lot of our trigger happy policeman. Now I need to clarify that I live in Indiana where the cops aren't so trigger happy but the amosexuals are. I've only had 2 guns drawn around me in my lifetime with no one getting shot thank goodness, only one of them was directed at me (it was a biker, knocked on the door "wrong")

I've been reading that debate. One of the best I've seen. I like how these guys speculate and project their opinion of what the Founding Fathers would think of what's going on today. Imagine what they'd really think if they saw the carnage at Sandy Hook. I won't speculate any further, except to doubt that their first thought would be The rights of Americans to own such a weapon should be protected, in case the govt turns against them, because if they also saw the advances in other military weaponry...they'd know for damned sure that no assault rifle would protect us against real government tyranny. An AR-15 is a pitiful match for the GAU-8 in an A-10 Warthog. If need be, the military would call those in to do their shooting first, like we do in the Middle East, along with all manner of attack aircraft armed with cluster bombs etc. Any survivors would have their guns subsequently pried from their "cold dead hands".

Sorry so graphic, but that's not far off from what a tyrannical US govt could, and would do in the worst case, to an opposing militia. A civil war today would be a lot different than in the past.

I agree with you that it's wrong for a guy like the LV shooter to be allowed to build an arsenal like that. Your average gun owner has almost no chance against someone that well-armed, and wouldn't have the funds to keep up, so the whole argument that the best defense against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun is just ridiculous when it comes to assault weapons. The bad guy is typically going to use the element of surprise anyway, so the best defense is regulation; not an arms race where that benefits the gun industry and some crazy rich guy.

Keep up the good work against Dusty.

I can understand that handing in firearms willingly will be hard for you guys, especially after such a long history with firearms and because of the 2nd, you also have a much larger population than we do here, so more nutters are out there unfortunately with easy access to firearms. I too said fk the govt when it first was mentioned here but then I realised that the firearms that I have are not what they are wanting to get off the streets.


Now here's the thing where a lot of people are going wrong, the authorities are not going to go door to door to take peoples firearms, they haven't got the manpower, that's just another scare tactic of the NRA, it's about the people wanting to fix up decades of inaction and wanting to change what they think is a birthright and not a privilege, with some people it probably wouldn't be such a bad idea if the authorities take what shouldn't be in possession of certain people even if they purchased them legally, they can do that now with felons in the states if I recall correctly.

If hope was lost after Sandy Hook then your country needs to not let the deaths of all the innocent people be forgotten this time, it's no good having memorials to the victims and foundations in their names if the weapons that caused the tragedies are still allowed out there, the conversation must continue and not only be spoken about after a tragedy.


As for visiting the states I am over-dramatising, I'm not really afraid but I can't fathom why everyone is in so much fear of each other and feel the need to have handguns. We don't really have that fear here as we know that handguns are very scarce. In any country if someone wants to do mass harm they will, but the extent of the incident will depend on what weapons are available to them.

Then there's the nutters that have replied in threads about being ready and willing to draw if they hear gunfire and try to take the "bad" guy out if they can, some even thought shoot first and ask questions later was OK, I would fear them...smh... that would suck if you were one of the innocents fleeing the area only to run into gunfire from the direction of the safe area. That mentality needs to change.

Makes me wonder how much they value life.

Your area would be one I would visit when in the States, I'd love to sit back and have a beer with you if I'm ever allowed in, the sound of helicopters is getting annoying.

:top: :sheep:

I hope you get to make the trip! Would be great to have a beer or three and some good food. If you come all that way, I'll be treating. We're not that far from a few nice casinos either, just over the border in OK. We'd have to plan a CC meetup around your trip!

 

[kidkvno1]

That's the existing law under which "Bump stocks" are technically legal in PA

The Dem introduced:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...blic.cfm?chamber=H&SPick=20170&cosponId=24683


meanwhile:
http://www.mcall.com/news/nationwor...mp-stock-pennsylvania-ban-20171007-story.html


I can't find the actual his proposal but it sounds like it's limited to just bump stocks.

The DEM's should also ban belt loops, since you can do it with a belt loop on your pants, no bump stock needed.

Note shooting with a bump stock, only works with people packed into a place, vs a line of people!
buying more than 2 guns a year should be a red flag, but the ATF only sees a red flag, if 2 guns are gotten on the same day
Maybe this, will change the ATFs view!!

It should also be based on the type of gun.

 

[belladonna05]

I've been reading that debate. One of the best I've seen. I like how these guys speculate and project their opinion of what the Founding Fathers would think of what's going on today. Imagine what they'd really think if they saw the carnage at Sandy Hook. I won't speculate any further, except to doubt that their first thought would be The rights of Americans to own such a weapon should be protected, in case the govt turns against them, because if they also saw the advances in other military weaponry...they'd know for damned sure that no assault rifle would protect us against real government tyranny. An AR-15 is a pitiful match for the GAU-8 in an A-10 Warthog. If need be, the military would call those in to do their shooting first, like we do in the Middle East, along with all manner of attack aircraft armed with cluster bombs etc. Any survivors would have their guns subsequently pried from their "cold dead hands".

Sorry so graphic, but that's not far off from what a tyrannical US govt could, and would do in the worst case, to an opposing militia. A civil war today would be a lot different than in the past.

I agree with you that it's wrong for a guy like the LV shooter to be allowed to build an arsenal like that. Your average gun owner has almost no chance against someone that well-armed, and wouldn't have the funds to keep up, so the whole argument that the best defense against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun is just ridiculous when it comes to assault weapons. The bad guy is typically going to use the element of surprise anyway, so the best defense is regulation; not an arms race where that benefits the gun industry and some crazy rich guy.

Keep up the good work against Dusty.





I hope you get to make the trip! Would be great to have a beer or three and some good food. If you come all that way, I'll be treating. We're not that far from a few nice casinos either, just over the border in OK. We'd have to plan a CC meetup around your trip!

Wow thanks sir, I didn't think anyone read my facebook but me
I am astounded at the 2nd amendment vs 1st amendment logic. I try to keep my facebook liberal stances mostly out of here except when it bleeds over and someone tries to troll me on what I said vs what actually was said.
Also I'm bring cc party of 1 to Oz in January , poor moe

 

[rifflemao]

Wow thanks sir, I didn't think anyone read my facebook but me
I am astounded at the 2nd amendment vs 1st amendment logic. I try to keep my facebook liberal stances mostly out of here except when it bleeds over and someone tries to troll me on what I said vs what actually was said.
Also I'm bring cc party of 1 to Oz in January , poor moe

It's too good not to listen in, and I'm hearing points on both sides that I haven't heard before. Hope you don't mind that I asked the question about bump fire stocks. Maybe it was touched on before in your debate, I'll have to re-read. I'm halfway expecting him to maintain his argument for no more regulation. I mean from his standpoint, don't you have to think What a marvelous enhancement. It will strengthen our militias against the threat of tyranny. Or is there finally a line?

And who are the real liberals/progressives in the gun debate? Aren't conservatives really using (possibly twisting) conservative values to promote a liberal and progressive policy on guns? I'm trying to see thru the wool.

 

[Zorba]

Also I'm bring cc party of 1 to Oz in January , poor moe

1 eh!!! That may or may not be a correct statement.

​

 

[rifflemao]

I'm halfway expecting him to maintain his argument for no more regulation. I mean from his standpoint, don't you have to think What a marvelous enhancement. It will strengthen our militias against the threat of tyranny. Or is there finally a line?

And that's what he did, because the constitution is his bible. The question of whether or not banning bump-stocks would work, or could have prevented the LV massacre hypothetically, or might prevent or limit a future massacre is not worth examining, because...constitution.

To us, he's immoral for not even considering a ban. To him, we're immoral for suggesting that we dare infringe upon the "birthright" of the many in an effort to save a relative few.

I doubt even losing someone close to him to a tragedy like LV would change his mind.