$5 NLHE 6-max: Trip Js on flop vs strong UTG range

[GreenDaddy1]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 26/23/3

I thought this was an interesting river at the time. Having revised it a bit I think maybe it was less of a decision than it felt at the time. Still might be good to get opinions.




Pacific Poker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 154.8 BB
SB: 99 BB
Hero (BB): 116.4 BB
UTG: 137.6 BB
MP: 127 BB
CO: 99 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J♥ K♥

UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (4.4 BB, 2 players) 3♣ J♣ J♠
Hero checks, UTG bets 2.2 BB, Hero raises to 8.8 BB, UTG calls 6.6 BB

Turn: (22 BB, 2 players) 6♦
Hero bets 18.6 BB, UTG calls 18.6 BB

River: (59.2 BB, 2 players) T♣
Hero bets 22.4 BB,

Spoiler

fold

Hero wins 55.8 BB

Villain was a slightly agro TAG. Based on his RFI stats he was positionally aware and probably opening about 13% from UTG.

I'm feeling very encouraged to just flat here when he is only making it 2x. His fold to 3 bet looked low but I really did not have enough data to know for sure.

Pretty sick flop. Villain c bets, which he seems to do nearly every time he has the chance over a 100 hand sample (6/7). I was really intent on getting value tonight so I didnt have to think too hard on that board to raise it up. If he had any inclination to continue I was making him pay. I thought at the time about extracting value from flush draws. I raise 4x which is pretty aggressive but hey if he is calling 3x maybe he calls 4x.

The turn is pretty blank, I don't think 66 calls the flop raise. I fire a big bet out that is not much less than pot. Villain calls without thinking too much about it.

And now comes that interesting river card, completing the flush. I sized my bet down quite a bit more but fired again for value, intending to fold to a shove and hate life. I think it would be pretty bad for villain to get to the river with a flush draw based on the pot odds I was giving on both streets, but people do bad things at 5nl, so....

Is bet folding the river here fine? Any other thoughts too fire away.

 

[gustav197poker]

Referring to your last question. If V folds on the river, he most likely put a J on your range. Especially because of the bet sizes you used postflop. However if you did that, your range probably looks wider since you called from the BB. That means "part of his strong range" is now below your perceived range. Therefore the V would need at least one hand better than trips to call.
Also if V has standard thinking he knows that he mainly represent bluffs catcher in his range, because he has had a tendency to play passively postflop. He was just beating your draws and the third club card came on the river.
But back to the beginning, you have a great hand to 3-bet here. The fact that your opponent represents a strong range should not inhibit your capacity to bluff. This isn't to say that it's wrong to call, but by being OOP you can have a proper mix of actions, otherwise they'll know you're raising with goods combinations as TPGK o 99+.
Greetings.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Standard defend.

Flop
Great flop obviously, since now you only lose to 33, AJ or a very unlikely J3, which we can basically ignore, since he is TAG opening UTG. Totally on board with check-raising for value.

Turn
Pretty big brick so totally on board with betting again, but I think, your sizing is very large. If he is a competent player, how often does he continue now with hands, you actually beat? Not saying it never happens, but I think, a lot of hands are starting to fold now, when you go this big. Even AA has to be hating this betsize, and even it if calls now, it probably dont call yet another big bet on the river.

River
Flushdraw completed, and this is not, what we wanted to see. You say, that you think, he should not have gotten here with a flushdraw. Ok but what else should he have gotten here with then? You think, 77-TT is a call on the turn to this sizing but not the nut flushdraw? I disagree with that, and I think, his range is now flushes, boats, AJ, QJs and then some pocket pairs.

And I dont think, you can get anything worse than your hand to call yet another bet, apart from maybe exactly QJs, which is only one combo. So for me the river is a check and evaluate. And against most players its actually a check-fold, unless he bet something really small and silly. The reason is, there are no busted draws, and few players at 5NL will take a made hand like 99 or QQ and turn it into a bluff.

 

[GreenDaddy1]

Yeah I was considering this again the morning and I do like a check on the river. I was thinking that if AA, KK or QQ had been sticky it would give them a chance to bluff.
Definitely some flushes could be there, (and the boat ), it can be very hard to know when some of the better players in pool call with bad odds thinking they'll stack me if they hit. And hey they might be right lol.

Good point about the turn bet size I think. Similar mistake to what I made in another recent hand. Just need to get better at thinking quick at the tables and make this stuff more automatic

 

[Tigroslav]

I would float smaller on the flop 6-7 bb followed by a 10-12 bb turn bet and check the river to see if he bets and how big.
Hoping he checks behind because we dont realy want to be folding unless we have to.
Most likely calling up to 2/3 pot bet and thats only possible because pot controled up to this point.
Based on limited Villain info it does however seem hes not likely to bluff river and in rare occasions he does bet big I belive you are beat by 33 66 TT and very rarely AJ.

 

[mktpppr]

P: fine, don't 3bet.

F: check/raise to 3x is enough, 4x is too big.

T: fine.

R: we have to slow down and check/evaluate. Check/call vs small bet. Check/fold vs big bet.

Unknowns are price insensitive postflop, so risk is still there villain binked river.

 

[Endwarfin]

Preflop
Standard defend.

Flop
Great flop obviously, since now you only lose to 33, AJ or a very unlikely J3, which we can basically ignore, since he is TAG opening UTG. Totally on board with check-raising for value.

Turn
Pretty big brick so totally on board with betting again, but I think, your sizing is very large. If he is a competent player, how often does he continue now with hands, you actually beat? Not saying it never happens, but I think, a lot of hands are starting to fold now, when you go this big. Even AA has to be hating this betsize, and even it if calls now, it probably dont call yet another big bet on the river.

River
Flushdraw completed, and this is not, what we wanted to see. You say, that you think, he should not have gotten here with a flushdraw. Ok but what else should he have gotten here with then? You think, 77-TT is a call on the turn to this sizing but not the nut flushdraw? I disagree with that, and I think, his range is now flushes, boats, AJ, QJs and then some pocket pairs.

And I dont think, you can get anything worse than your hand to call yet another bet, apart from maybe exactly QJs, which is only one combo. So for me the river is a check and evaluate. And against most players its actually a check-fold, unless he bet something really small and silly. The reason is, there are no busted draws, and few players at 5NL will take a made hand like 99 or QQ and turn it into a bluff.

I agree, everything that calls you with this line is bluff catching and has you beat, or just has you beat.
The good news is you do fold out the AJ here often, but we hardly ever get called by worse. The times QJ call are outweighed by the J10 raising.

 

[fundiver199]

Yeah I was considering this again the morning and I do like a check on the river. I was thinking that if AA, KK or QQ had been sticky it would give them a chance to bluff.

As I said already, very few people actually do that. They think, their overpair has showdown value, and they are more than happy, that you allowed them to take it to showdown without putting any more money in the pot. So they just check back, and then you win. And if you disagree with this and think, this Villain is a complete spewtard, who will bet way to much when checked to, then just check-call! Why would we ever want to take away the option for our opponent to bluff, if we think, they are bluffing to much? This makes no sense, so you need to work on that thought process and get used to the idea of check-calling with bluff catchers, when its profitable.

What you did on the river can be called a "block bet", but in order for a block bet to make sense, you need to be good more than 50% of the time when called or raised. And I just think, this is to optimistic here, when the only draw just get there. It sounds like, you either dont want him to have a flushdraw, or to fold it on the turn, because you dont want to get drawn out on. But the goal in poker is not to win the pot, its to win money. So this is also a way of thinking about the situation, which you need to work on

 

[Ducky7]

I think flop sizing was a wee bit too big for the x/r but not a big deal, turn sizing is good as you want to polarise your range to FDs and this kind of hand so wp.

River I think from a theory POV you're going to want to bet small like 1/3 and also check with this hand sometimes to protect your range.

As an exploit for lower stakes I think betting small and folding to a raise is really solid because no one is ever going to bluff you and you will get called a lot by TT+ that people won't fold enough