$200 NL HE 6-max: Dual hand analyziz! K9 + JJ

[fullorfold]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$1/$2

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

VP$IP

71

PFR

36

AF

2

Currency

$

Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 71/36/2
Hello dear poker enthusiasts Today i bring 2 hand i thougt was interesting. This first K9 off. I don't have lots of history against this player only 133 hands. But he was siting bully whole table i felt like so i took a chanse and thougt i will outplay him... but as the whole hand played out i dont really know... as of river stats this guy fold 60 % to river bets and only 30% has got to showdown... I strongly feel like he only have a draw that missed 89? (maybe even Q x suit)? Is all in to risky here in you opinion or did i read board correct here and made a strong good bluff?





Second hand is just a opinion if it a to tight fold or not!? I just feel like this is cashgame i can wait until a better spot right? JJ is good but with this much action i rather just fold 1 BB and take it to the pot another time.

UTG stats: CO stats: SB stats:

Spoiler: showdown

 

[primrose]

I've never played anywhere close to these stakes online, so idk how much I can contribute here. But fwiw I don't like the first hand.

Preflop: I never 3bet this kind of hand unless I think my opponent is so extremely loose that I can 3bet almost any two cards. I'd rather 3bet 87s or (if you're looking for more bluffs) even something like 64s or 87o. if you 3bet a weak King and get called, there's a good chance you're dominated.

If you are 3betting, why so small? 3x is the sizing for when you have position. You should go 4x at least. You will get called wide here, which is not good with a hand as crappy as this. We're playing a big pot with a mediocre range out of position. Yuck!

Flop: You should cbet this flop, but not for half pot! We have a good flop for our range and it's a 3bet pot. We should cbet our entire range small.

Turn: You can barrel again here, but I would go much larger than half pot. Villain called the Flop, this is the time to get serious. In general, I think 25% Pot -> 80% Pot is a much better line than 50% Pot -> 50% Pot, at least when you're trying to get folds.

River: Bad card to bluff. Villain's range is full of 2 pair here. Even if they don't have 2 pair, they probably have the Ace. You need to get a fold a third of the time here to make this worthwhile; I don't see that happening. Villain could have AQ, QT, AT, even QQ or AA, even AJ won't fold here, idk if A9 folds...

 

[fullorfold]

I've never played anywhere close to these stakes online, so idk how much I can contribute here. But fwiw I don't like the first hand.

Preflop: I never 3bet this kind of hand unless I think my opponent is so extremely loose that I can 3bet almost any two cards. I'd rather 3bet 87s or (if you're looking for more bluffs) even something like 64s or 87o. if you 3bet a weak King and get called, there's a good chance you're dominated.

If you are 3betting, why so small? 3x is the sizing for when you have position. You should go 4x at least. You will get called wide here, which is not good with a hand as crappy as this. We're playing a big pot with a mediocre range out of position. Yuck!

Flop: You should cbet this flop, but not for half pot! We have a good flop for our range and it's a 3bet pot. We should cbet our entire range small.

Turn: You can barrel again here, but I would go much larger than half pot. Villain called the Flop, this is the time to get serious. In general, I think 25% Pot -> 80% Pot is a much better line than 50% Pot -> 50% Pot, at least when you're trying to get folds.

River: Bad card to bluff. Villain's range is full of 2 pair here. Even if they don't have 2 pair, they probably have the Ace. You need to get a fold a third of the time here to make this worthwhile; I don't see that happening. Villain could have AQ, QT, AT, even QQ or AA, even AJ won't fold here, idk if A9 folds...

hey yo! Sorry but i disagree with the most of you logic here.

Preflop: i agree on this you write here but like i said this player was showing hands like 4T - J5 suit and all kind of shit. And sometimes you just need to fight back and that was what i did this hand. K9off probably not the best hand to do this sure but against this guy it was probably monster.. But i agree strongly with you about position in the hand... we are out of position... that sucks... but it's altso what this player wants, he dont have strong hands he just bully players around in position.

Flop: you bet small like 25-30% isch freqently with flops containg A - K - Q X X , and 50% with flops like this. So your argument allways cbet is faulty.
sometimes we even check, but not very likely in 3 bet pots tho...

Turn: his "just call" on flop indicates another cbet on this turn however i don't know how much exactly but i felt like if i was gonna bet more then 50% and he calls i cant bluff on river. i will have like 60 BB left in a pot of 98 isch!? it's more likely he will call of with some small pair with 60 to win 160 then 73 to win 160 on river yes?

River: Really? naaah i still feel like with this plays VI is doing it's not AX... it will almost never be QQ or AA since VI just cold call my 3 bet preflop. We would se a 4 bet from VI with that kind of hand preflop. But a Q on river sucks and it's very likely he could have something like QJs (both clubs)
i ofc rather see a brick on river like another 2 or 3 4 or something like that but i got a Q and 0% showdown value so the only way i win this pot is by taking it to the bluffvile!

 

[fundiver199]

Hand 1 K9o

The way to beat maniacs is not to "outplay" them but to show down the best hand in a big pot and let them either make some bad calls, overplay their second best hand or try to bluff you. What you are doing here, is trying to fight fire with fire, and even though it worked this time, in the long run you will be lighting your own money on fire, if you constantly try to bluff maniacs. Its basically like trying to manhande a cow up a staircase, since the one thing, these players dont like, is to fold. In this case you are out of position with a very bad hand, and you should just have folded preflop. The next 3 hands you have position on him, and thats when you can loosen up your range a little and get involved with the maniac.

Hand 2 JJ
Standard fold. With this action in front of you, JJ is rarely ahead, and you are not yet involved in the action.

 

[fundiver199]

I've never played anywhere close to these stakes online, so idk how much I can contribute here. But fwiw I don't like the first hand.

In these two hands OP is against a 71/36, a 61/14, a 45/5 and a 20/10 with a 2% 3-bet over 8k hands. This is either the softest 200NL game anywhere in the world, or its a microstakes or playmoney game.

 

[primrose]

Preflop: i agree on this you write here but like i said this player was showing hands like 4T - J5 suit and all kind of shit. And sometimes you just need to fight back and that was what i did this hand. K9off probably not the best hand to do this sure but against this guy it was probably monster.. But i agree strongly with you about position in the hand... we are out of position... that sucks... but it's altso what this player wants, he dont have strong hands he just bully players around in position.

This is an argument for 3bet bluffing, but I wasn't objecting to the 3bet bluff, I was objecting to the choice of hand and to the sizing.

Re Flop: will assume this is a GTO thing and take your word for it

Re Turn: wasn't paying attention to stack sizes, my bad. Yes, if the intention here is to set up a River jam, then your bet sizing structure makes more sense.

Re River: Even if you got here with the intention of jamming, I still think you should give up after seeing this card.

When I said that AA and QQ are in the range I wasn't forgetting about a possible 4bet. But if someone is hyper aggressive and then gets a monster the one time someone 3bets him, I think a lot of them will choose to slowplay. What does 4bet I think is something like AK and AQ. If I had Aces in his position given the history I would never 4bet; I'd flat the 3bet and call down three streets.

In these two hands OP is against a 71/36, a 61/14, a 45/5 and a 20/10 with a 2% 3-bet over 8k hands. This is either the softest 200NL game anywhere in the world, or its a microstakes or playmoney game.

It just never really occurred to me to accuse OP of lying, but yeah these look crazy. Well actually they look like live stats for these stakes.

 

[fullorfold]

Hand 1 K9o

The way to beat maniacs is not to "outplay" them but to show down the best hand in a big pot and let them either make some bad calls, overplay their second best hand or try to bluff you. What you are doing here, is trying to fight fire with fire, and even though it worked this time, in the long run you will be lighting your own money on fire, if you constantly try to bluff maniacs. Its basically like trying to manhande a cow up a staircase, since the one thing, these players dont like, is to fold. In this case you are out of position with a very bad hand, and you should just have folded preflop. The next 3 hands you have position on him, and thats when you can loosen up your range a little and get involved with the maniac.

Good writen! Yeah i don't know why exactly I choose this hand to take a battle i guess i was tired of his 64% steal but the fact is still there that i are out of position...

 

[fullorfold]

In these two hands OP is against a 71/36, a 61/14, a 45/5 and a 20/10 with a 2% 3-bet over 8k hands. This is either the softest 200NL game anywhere in the world, or its a microstakes or playmoney game.

 

[primrose]

Why don't you just clear things up by telling us which site you're playing on?

(Fun fact: this probably gives it away



but I don't play online nowadays so I don't recognize the chips.)

 

[Station_Master]

View attachment 389251

Yeah no way this is 200NL, just tell us the actual stake!

 

[primrose]

In fairness one has to mention that 200NL is a pretty ambiguous name. You could be forgiven for thinking that it means 1ct/2ct with a 200ct (=2€) stack. That would in fact be 2NL