$2 NLHE 6-max: How would you play this flop?

[Jamalex]

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN SB and BB were all aggro fish and were 3betting/Squeezing too much but no one was playing vs my 4bets...decided to play AKs as a trap and see how it went. Sadly no one 3bet but quite a pot developed anyways...

MP: 100 BB
Hero (CO): 242.5 BB
BTN: 100 BB
SB: 285 BB
BB: 435 BB
UTG: 120.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:club: K:club:

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (12 BB, 4 players) 8:club: J:heart: Q:club:
SB checks, BB bets 12 BB, UTG raises to 37.5 BB, Hero raises to 239.5 BB and is all-in, fold, BB calls 227.5 BB, UTG calls 80 BB and is all-in

RESULTS ARE BELOW

























































Turn: (608.5 BB, 3 players) 5:club:

River: (608.5 BB, 3 players) 6:spade:

[spoil]Hero shows A:club: K:club: (Flush, Ace High)

Main Pot [364.5 BB]: (Pre 47%, Flop 37%, Turn 90%)
Side Pot#1 [244 BB]: (Pre 65%, Flop 45%, Turn 100%)

BB shows 9:heart: T:club: (Straight, Queen High)

Main Pot [364.5 BB]: (Pre 21%, Flop 45%, Turn 0%)
Side Pot#1 [244 BB]: (Pre 35%, Flop 55%, Turn 0%)

UTG shows J:diamond: Q:diamond: (Two Pair, Queens and Jacks)

Main Pot [364.5 BB]: (Pre 31%, Flop 18%, Turn 10%)

Hero wins 578.5 BB
[/spoil]

SIDE NOTE
I have 836bb on the table right now, gotta be the most I've ever had on one table lol

 

[zuker]

I would fold flop. Playing with flash draw against bet and then raise is not good idea. And pushing so deep is tilting imho.

 

[GreenDaddy1]

I dont know. I'm guilty of playing huge draws too fast against the maniac fish also at times but usually regret it, eg jamming flush + gutshot draws.
At least in this case any A or any K might also have given you the best hand.

Generally though, do sometimes make these jams if you are very likely already ahead with a decent top pair or better, and think the crazy fish will call off with their draws or 2nd pairs, but do not do it when you are going to lose to some random bad pair when you miss your draw, even if you have a decent 12 outs, you might be 50/50 at best and do you really want a coin flip for your stack against players who you can clearly outplay in better spots? Don't throw away your skill edge to gamble, just because they are loose and wild. Be more patient, is my advice. Advice i definitely need to heed myself at times!

Worth saying too, watch their aggression factor or frequency, because against the very aggressive maniacs you just want to let them do the betting even when you hit your top pair or better, many of them pretty reliably bet three streets with air or marginal hands. In those cases save any raise/jam for the river when you already have with a noose around their neck.

 

[Jamalex]

I would fold flop. Playing with flash draw against bet and then raise is not good idea. And pushing so deep is tilting imho.

I hear ya, but at the absolute worst if both players call and ONLY will have a set with a club and a straight with a club I still have over 32% equity here. (I ran the hand) I don't think I'm "good enough" or willing to fold that combo draw here and if I'm right and villains would call with as bad as Q9o with the 9 of clubs, JXs of clubs or even just a worse flush draw or straight draw and whatever else they see fit to with. Then my overcards are live as well and my possible equity is much larger. Not to mention all the times they do choose to fold or when my hand may even be ahead sometimes.

So if I'm not going to fold my hand then comes the question should I ever cold call a reraise and I just think that's a bad decision in general in almost any situation.

So lastly if I'm gonna raise/get it in with this hand almost no matter what then what size do I choose and I think I could have gone with something like 90bb-120bb facing a 38bb reraise with 240bb effective stack behind or just ship it and I prefer to get it in on the flop vs both of them. I can assure you I was not tilting and was calculated in my decision making and I personally think folding would be such a big mistake here but I just play 2NL so I could be way wrong about this.

 

[Jamalex]

I dont know. I'm guilty of playing huge draws too fast against the maniac fish also at times but usually regret it, eg jamming flush + gutshot draws.
At least in this case any A or any K might also have given you the best hand.

Generally though, do sometimes make these jams if you are very likely already ahead with a decent top pair or better, and think the crazy fish will call off with their draws or 2nd pairs, but do not do it when you are going to lose to some random bad pair when you miss your draw, even if you have a decent 12 outs, you might be 50/50 at best and do you really want a coin flip for your stack against players who you can clearly outplay in better spots? Don't throw away your skill edge to gamble, just because they are loose and wild. Be more patient, is my advice. Advice i definitely need to heed myself at times!

Worth saying too, watch their aggression factor or frequency, because against the very aggressive maniacs you just want to let them do the betting even when you hit your top pair or better, many of them pretty reliably bet three streets with air or marginal hands. In those cases save any raise/jam for the river when you already have with a noose around their neck.

I totally agree if you make this move and lose to his pocket 99 no club he decided to call off with then that can be very tiltingI for sure get your point about there being better spots and to not waste any skill edge vs the players I'm against. That being said, I think besides A10s of clubs and AKs of clubs there is no draw I would play/get in here but I just don't think I could fold those 2 hands especially with there being fish at the table with a bare minimum of 32% equity in the hand as I previously said. Again I only play 2NL so maybe I'll learn down the road that this is somehow supposed to be an easy foldbut I think vs the fish in general I just have too much equity to throw it away.

 

[fifille07]

On micros, I think I'm 3-betting with AK to avoid as much limpers as I can.

 

[Jamalex]

On micros, I think I'm 3-betting with AK to avoid as much limpers as I can.

Aside from 1 or 2 times including this one, I usually doit was a situational decision to just flat

 

[marvinsytan]

raise and a re-raise, I'm just flatting to hit my nut flush

no point in jamming 227.5bb because we are definitely behind and just trying to hit our nut flush.

 

[Jamalex]

raise and a re-raise, I'm just flatting to hit my nut flush

no point in jamming 227.5bb because we are definitely behind and just trying to hit our nut flush.

Now that I think about it, I believe I saw a video blackrain79 did one time where he talked about flatting in spots like this is better then shoving...I believe I was mistaken then when I said never to flat the reraise. I think it was something like if your up against players who are just not going to fold then don't put your money in until you make your hand, just call call call. I still don't think I'm gonna fold here but I guess calling may have been the better option.

Also even without the overcards we still have a gutterball too.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I would have put in a 3-bet, but ok you decided to call, and if this is only something, you do very occationally, I guess, its fine. It keep you more unpredictable, although this probably does not matter much in a 2NL game.

Flop
I would just have called and then called again, if someone behind came over the top. Your hand block a lot of draws, and this makes it more likely, UTG is raising with some sort of made hand. He put in a third of his stack already, and I dont think, you have any fold equity against him. So when you 3-bet here, as a jam or any other size, you are really just trying to get BB out of the hand. And this makes no sense, if you still need to improve to beat UTG at showdown. You have 12 outs to the nuts, so you want to keep BB in the hand to give yourself better pot odds and better implied odds as well. In this case it turned out, BB had the nuts, so it made no difference. But if he had a hand like AQ or KQ, he might well have found a fold, and you would almost have forced him to play well.