When (bad) players minbet into biggish pots

[Dorkus Malorkus]

18 player SnG, 6 left, 4 pay, Seat 7 is a pretty typical loose/passive donk you get at $5s (Seat 1 is a bit of a donk too! ).

Converter doesn't seem to like FT hands, so apologies for the messiness

fulltiltpoker Game #280503850: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1809017), Table 1 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:00:55 ET - 2005/11/06
Seat 1: IrishFitz (2,787)
Seat 3: Qhr1s0 (2,785)
Seat 6: WIS TOO (3,970)
Seat 7: Tractor Girl (3,613)
Seat 8: EZCanuck (2,485)
Seat 9: photophreek (11,360)
WIS TOO posts the small blind of 100
Tractor Girl posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Qhr1s0 [8h Ad]
EZCanuck folds
photophreek folds
IrishFitz folds
Qhr1s0 raises to 600
WIS TOO folds
Tractor Girl calls 400
*** FLOP *** [Ts 9c 2h]
Tractor Girl bets 200
Qhr1s0 ???

What does the minbet mean, and what's your play?

 

[IrishDave]

As the donk in seat 1, I'll refrain from my own analysis of this hand...

 

[F Paulsson]

I'd rule out set or an overpair (you didn't say how passive, but c'mon, not that passive?) as well as two pairs. A set is almost always slowplayed at these levels (and if she (?) was trying to protect her set, a min raise is not a good way to do it), and the overpair smells like a preflop raise, unless she was really scared of QQ, KK and AA. I can't help but think that two pairs would have gone for a check-raise as well.

So...

Straight draw or one pair. I'll go with the pair: JT. Depending on how passive, it could even be AT.

The reasoning behind the minimum bet with a straight draw would be that perhaps he or she was trying to get you to just call and give him or her the right odds for the play.

Either way, I don't think she's looking to fold to a re-raise. You're getting odds of 8-to-1, and you might be holding a three-outer. I'd probably fold, unless you know her to bet this spot with nothing.

 

[twizzybop]

The min bet means "info" she has a playable hand but wants to see where you stand. My guess would be that she has an underpair of cards. Her hole cards are probably pocket 7's or 8's. If they are 8's that helps her on the runner runner straight draw.

If not then most would either be A,K or A,Q.. nothing paired but like I said she bet for "info" to find out where you stand. Then there is a possibilty she has a pair over the ten and is slow playing it like she does have A,K or A,Q.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Results:

Tractor Girl bets 200
Qhr1s0 raises to 1,000
Tractor Girl folds

A couple of comments.

- This sort of play is pretty typical of a bad player close to the bubble - trying to take a pot without risking many chips, especially with 5 players with very similar stack sizes. A better player might be betting small to induce a raise (though a better player would very seldom make this play), but with a bad player imo the small bet is invariably an "I want to see a cheap turn card" bet, or a "I have a weak hand and I hope you fold... oh God please fold" bet. So I raised with Ace-high, putting her on a better hand than mine, something like A2 or K9 or possibly a straight draw, fully expecting her to fold any of these because of the tournament circumstances (stack sizes, players left) at the time. Basically, if a bad player bets very small, it's almost always because they don't want to call a bigger bet.

- There's also the image factor here. Folding to such a tiny bet will alert any observant players (ok so there are prolly not many of these at the $5s, but it's good practice) to the fact that it doesn't take much to muscle you out of a pot. The raise lets people know if they're going to play with you, they're probably going to have to put all their chips on the line - and this makes you less likely to get people playing with you, and in a bubble situation like this you want people folding to your raises more often than not.

 

[twizzybop]

So she got scared cause if she makes seat 4 it is going to change her life dramatically. Move out of the house, buy a mansion, new car, clothes the hole nine yards. Ceases to amaze me because people are afraid of losing at the bubble when the seat after the bubble isn't really going to change your life dramatically at all.

By the way.. find out what she have?

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Nope, but I'm almost certain it was one of the hands I mentioned (or similar).

...and yeah, I don't get it either, but that's the way the majority of players are and it's up to us better players [:ego:] to take advantage of it.

 

[xdmanx007]

ummm ace 8 off safe to assume this was a steal attempt? Your opponent either wanted a cheap turn card OR had a mid to bottom pair. You actually got somewhat lucky cause generaly players are in for a penny in for a pound in that situation.