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Message: [QUOTE="eetenor, post: 7106654, member: 385063"] Not a good play with 44---standard live bad play we want to take note they have that kind of hand in their range. We also want to not how many other players do the same. Is it 10% 50% more? A9s also standard live play as well---we need to note that ICM has us fold most often the 88 to protect for future action however solver does call 30% of the time. So call vs these ranges is fine. We want to be thinking beyond hitting our hand to win the pot when we call though and if we do not then we should be folding preflop. Beyond hitting means can we attack weakness and win the pot and how would we do that? If we do not think we can steal some % of pots just fold This hand is a great example of that second strategy of attacking weakness--We have position we have a pair- the board hits our range everyone checks to us. We can try to win this pot right now on the flop by betting - If we do not win the pot on flop after we bet - we can still attack turn- if you think the V has a JX hand we can make them fold it on turn by bluffing twice or if we do check back we can then often showdown and win that way. Again if you think you cannot get any weak pair above an 8 to fold -just fold preflop. so at 40 bb if we call with 88 we want to be thinking 2 ways to win when IP- hit and steal. As played the turn bet is too small for us to fold Your read on the turn seems to be trying to find a reason to fold- the pot is 19500 and the V bets 5000 that is not a protection bet with a jack most often it is what it was, a blocker bet. The pot is 24500 we are getting 5 to 1 to call and the V may not bet again. In live MTT we cannot fold to weak bets our V play way to face up on turns by betting strong value larger most often larger may be only 7k but it is seldom 5k JJ QQ knows Ax folds the turn to any bet so they bet 7k 8k 9k to charge KT JT or to get the draws to fold if they have AJ 99 etc As I stated earlier solver folds 88 most often- if we call, we have to be willing to take the above actions with our hand- otherwise it is best to just fold preflop and play much tighter ICM strategies. Great job sharing your hands [/QUOTE]

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