$ NL HE MTT: CC Daily Platinum

[mariussica88]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

Currency

$

Here we have 2 or 3 players to exit before the money bubble burst. So do you think that my call here is ok? Even if I had a stack similar to V I think I would call here.

MP+1 stats after 74 hands: VPIP 19 PFR 11 Limp 10 Post flop AGG 4 Flop C-bet 67 Turn C-bet 100 Flop Bet 38


pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - 200/400 (50 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 7,615 (19 bb)
UTG+1: 4,209 (11 bb)
MP: 12,659 (32 bb)
MP+1: 5,379 (13 bb)
CO: 10,282 (26 bb)
BU: 4,981 (12 bb)
SB: 17,245 (43 bb)
BB (Hero): 11,543 (29 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,000) Hero is BB with K♠ A♥
3 players fold, MP+1 raises to 1,600, 3 players fold, Hero 3-bets to 11,493 (all-in), MP+1 calls 3,729 (all-in)

Flop: (11,258) 4♥ 3♠ Q♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (11,258) 2♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (11,258) 7♣ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 11,258

Spoiler

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows K♠ A♥ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 42%, Flop: 30%, Turn: 23%, River: 0%)

MP+1 shows J♦ J♣ (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 58%, Flop: 70%, Turn: 77%, River: 100%)

MP+1 wins 11,258

 

[Andyreas]

His open of 4 bigs is pretty weird.

I've only seen people doing it with high PPs like maybe TT+. So you'd be behind that but ofc AK is a strong hand post-flop.

I'd also do the same and hope I'm not against the Kings or Aces. A fold is unlikely with that open.

Indeed you weren't but no King or Ace came to save you.

 

[fundiver199]

Andyreas is right, that the 4BB open is unusual, and for most players its probably a very unbalanced line skewed towards strong hands. But with that being said its not sound poker to put to much into such reads, and we should not have a range, that are calling an open jam but folding to a non all-in open from the same player. And AK is certainly a call to a 13BB open jam in nearly all situations.

The only time, we might consider to not call a 13BB jam with AK, is, if we are a mid-stack on the bubble of a 9-man SnGs. Like CO is a 3BB stack, and he has folded, we are BB with 13BB, SB has 12BB, and BTN open jam for his 35BB. In that case AK is actually a fold, since we simply can not afford to bust, while CO is still hanging around with a short stack. But in all other situations including this one its a no-brainer get-it-in, and then the outcome just is, what it is.

 

[puzzlefish]

His open of 4 bigs is pretty weird.

I've only seen people doing it with high PPs like maybe TT+. So you'd be behind that but ofc AK is a strong hand post-flop.

I'd also do the same and hope I'm not against the Kings or Aces. A fold is unlikely with that open.

Indeed you weren't but no King or Ace came to save you.

Andyreas is right, that the 4BB open is unusual, and for most players its probably a very unbalanced line skewed towards strong hands. But with that being said its not sound poker to put to much into such reads, and we should not have a range, that are calling an open jam but folding to a non all-in open from the same player. And AK is certainly a call to a 13BB open jam in nearly all situations.

The only time, we might consider to not call a 13BB jam with AK, is, if we are a mid-stack on the bubble of a 9-man SnGs. Like CO is a 3BB stack, and he has folded, we are BB with 13BB, SB has 12BB, and BTN open jam for his 35BB. In that case AK is actually a fold, since we simply can not afford to bust, while CO is still hanging around with a short stack. But in all other situations including this one its a no-brainer get-it-in, and then the outcome just is, what it is.

So are you two agreeing with the jam with AK here? Here there's a raise by villain and a jam by the hero. Since there's no action to come behind the hero, would a call be better here and then maybe pressure on the flop?

 

[eetenor]

Here we have 2 or 3 players to exit before the money bubble burst. So do you think that my call here is ok? Even if I had a stack similar to V I think I would call here.

MP+1 stats after 74 hands: VPIP 19 PFR 11 Limp 10 Post flop AGG 4 Flop C-bet 67 Turn C-bet 100 Flop Bet 38


PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 200/400 (50 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 7,615 (19 bb)
UTG+1: 4,209 (11 bb)
MP: 12,659 (32 bb)
MP+1: 5,379 (13 bb)
CO: 10,282 (26 bb)
BU: 4,981 (12 bb)
SB: 17,245 (43 bb)
BB (Hero): 11,543 (29 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,000) Hero is BB with K♠ A♥
3 players fold, MP+1 raises to 1,600, 3 players fold, Hero 3-bets to 11,493 (all-in), MP+1 calls 3,729 (all-in)

Flop: (11,258) 4♥ 3♠ Q♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (11,258) 2♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (11,258) 7♣ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 11,258

Spoiler

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows K♠ A♥ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 42%, Flop: 30%, Turn: 23%, River: 0%)

MP+1 shows J♦ J♣ (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 58%, Flop: 70%, Turn: 77%, River: 100%)

MP+1 wins 11,258

Nothing wrong with how you played it-you could call and decide on flop considering the possible tighter bubble range this V might have in this spot when they raise not shove-
That would be playing exploit based on how tight these freerolls get at this moment in the freeroll
FGS/ future game might have us lean to stack protect vs raw equity flip based on overly tight standard play in these freerolls at this inflection point

 

[Andyreas]

So are you two agreeing with the jam with AK here? Here there's a raise by villain and a jam by the hero. Since there's no action to come behind the hero, would a call be better here and then maybe pressure on the flop?

Well the problem with a regular call is that there's this huge pot of more than 1/3 of our remaining stack and we are out of position. And villain will have an SPR of 1, so he can only jam if he wanna bet.

What if we miss the flop and face a jam? Or what if we hit it and he doesn't bet?

This is an awkward situation, I try to avoid.

If we wanna get max potential value and avoid a huge pot OOP, we should jam, in my opinion.

 

[fundiver199]

So are you two agreeing with the jam with AK here? Here there's a raise by villain and a jam by the hero. Since there's no action to come behind the hero, would a call be better here and then maybe pressure on the flop?

A call commits hero to the pot, so if he just call, he will need to run a stop-and-go on the flop. Usually a stop-and-go is preferred, if we like to see a flop before putting the rest of our chips in, but with AK we cant really check-fold, even when we miss. So I dont think it makes much difference in this particular spot. The chips are going to go in on the flop at the latest, and its unlikely, the opponent fold to either line.

 

[300HPGOD]

Other points have been hit on so I will give my 2 cents on call vs jam here. First, we have AK with the effective stack being 13BBs so we are not folding here unless we were in some satty. So its call or fold. I agree with others that when we call here then we shouldnt be folding post flop so a call is a committal to the hand. I also believe that rarely villain will ever not jam the flop if we happen to just call here since if they hit, they are going with it, if they already have it, they are going with it, and if they have nothing then they need to try to bluff with 1/3rd their stack already in and the SPR being 1 ish. We then know pretty confidently that a call pre will lead to an all in on the flop no matter what cards are hitting. Can we say the same about jamming over here, is villain always calling our jam on the bubble when they did something out of the ordinary pre flop (raising large, although I see some players do this often as well when blinds get big and some do a mixture of blind stealing and big hands with it where others are just big hands)? These raises from some players indicate a hand that has some strength but is vulnerable. Its a hand where they feel is too good to fold pre, but then not good enough to jam and also not a hand where they want to raise and get called either. Usually these raises fall into the range of 55-99, A10, A9, KQ suited type hands. That is a general range that needs to be adjusted for each player you see do this but that is my general thoughts. Well, if villain has 88 or so they should not be raising this large off of this stack but they did it out of "protection" and fear of going broke or getting called pre and have to play post so they tried to make some bet that meets in the middle. These types of hands could fold to a jam knowing they are only flipping at best and could easily be crushed. Again, I would expect JJ to just go here with 13 BBs but there are hands that could do this that would fold if we jam over.

Long winded answer, sorry, but to sum it up... jam here vs calling is better since we are committed no matter what we do and we could get hands that are favorites against us to fold or at least consider folding on the bubble like small and medium pairs.

 

[puzzlefish]

Interesting discussion for sure.

I feel that villains in these positions may just want to test the water with a flop and then maybe back out. They're a bit more fishy than what you would expect from a robotic efficient line where they would just jam all-in first.

Sometimes they may also be trying to induce someone with a lesser hand to jam, like some other weaker Ax worse than Q. Either way they aren't folding pre, but might decide to fold and wait for a better hand to ride out on if clearly outflopped.

I figure if we're going all-in anyway, might as well see the flop and then maybe get a little bit of fold equity, even if it is tiny, by jamming on the flop if villain doesn't.

There's only going to be two players here either way and the pot will be what is is, so I agree there won't be much of a difference here. What about if we had a villain with 15-20BB instead of 13BB for a stack? What's the cutoff for stop and go here?

 

[fundiver199]

Usually these raises fall into the range of 55-99, A10, A9, KQ suited type hands. That is a general range that needs to be adjusted for each player you see do this but that is my general thoughts.

I agree as far as this line rarely being AA or KK at least, because those hands are not afraid to get action. So its typically a hand of the type "I have JJ, and I hate them, so please fold" with JJ probably being the very best hand, we will ever get shown. I also agree, that there are sometimes fold equity in spots like this, even though there should not be.