Easy fold ? by Casino.us

[tenbob]

$50 live game about 4 weeks ago, this hand popped into my mind. Game is still in the re-buy stage. 9 players, 2500 starting chips, blinds at 100/200

UTG-CALL
Seat 1- FOLD
Seat 2- FOLD
Tenbob- [Ah] [Ad] RAISE to 800, my stack was well over 5k.
Folded to the button, chip leader, tight player likes to make a few moves from time to time- CALL
Blinds - FOLD
UTG- CALL

FLOP
[8c] [9c] [10c]

UTG-CHECK
Tenbob- Bet 1000, didnt want to shove here, wanted to see what was going on behind me, a smaller bet would pobably have achieved the same goal.

BUTTON- RE-RAISE ALL-IN.
UTG FOLD

Tenbob ?

 

[ChuckTs]

thats just about the most dangerous flop you could have hit
I say fold, but i'd probably call with the aa fever

 

[t1riel]

In response to the title of your thread, this is not an easy fold. You say the button is tight but likes to make a move every now and then. He knows you have a monster hand (but probably doesn't think you have bullets) and he is risking a lot of chips. I would fold here. I can't see how he would risk so much on a draw. He might even have top pair with high club like 10h, Ac. I say fold and cut your losses here. It was a bad flop for you.

 

[robwhufc]

TB, I read a bit of Doyle Brunson's SS2 where he said he prefers AK to AA, because you win more when you hit, and it's easier to get away from when you hit bad flop. Here you'd drop AK like a shot (unless they were clubs of course). I'd fold - if he's bluffing then fair play to him cos he's picked a perfect situation.

 

[zinzan1000]

This game is still in the re-buy stage, and is the reason why your opponent has been making some moves.
He doesnt mind risking chips if it will put him in a good chip position when the buy-ins end.
He also knows if all else fails he can regroup with another buy-in.
You have that option also.
Being that you have aces leads you to a tough decision, i would have to put him on a big draw because if he had a made hand he played it wrong.
Why go all-in with a made hand unless he was worried you had a higher made hand.
I would of called and prepared myself for another buy-in if need be.
I either spend another $50 or have a huge amount of chips, and whatever the outcome, im still in the game.

Under a different format where its all or nothing, i think i might fold this one and lick my wounds.

It would be interesting to know what 4th and 5th street appeared if by chance you called this guy.

zinzan1000 be lucky

 

[Stick66]

Your 1000 bet is the key. To re-raise after it must mean he has you beat (or at least he thinks so). If you'd have bet 400 or 500 and someone re-raised, then they might be trying a move because they sensed weakness. However, the rebuy stage does make some people go nutty. Overall in this case, not easy but a GREAT fold.

 

[shwingzilla]

Your 1000 bet is the key. To re-raise after it must mean he has you beat (or at least he thinks so). If you'd have bet 400 or 500 and someone re-raised, then they might be trying a move because they sensed weakness. However, the rebuy stage does make some people go nutty. Overall in this case, not easy but a GREAT fold.

Yea, this is pretty much the worst flop possible. You bet out strong and he reraised all in. There is sense to his bet too. If he has two clubs, he most certainly does not want you to see another card, and risk the chance that you have an ace high flush draw. Also if someone preflop raises and then raises after the flop, they're going to have a really hard time getting away from their hand. If it is a bluff, it's a damn good one.

 

[tenbob]

Hmm i wasnt prepared to re-buy if i didnt have to. If im behind in the hand so be it. Anyway i mucked, not easy when you have aces as Rob pointed out.

Our opponent smiled and showed the table an excellent semi-bluff
[Ac] [Jd] for the nut flush draw and open-ended straight draw. Fine great move by him.

 

[colin_147]

TB, I read a bit of Doyle Brunson's SS2 where he said he prefers AK to AA, because you win more when you hit, and it's easier to get away from when you hit bad flop. Here you'd drop AK like a shot (unless they were clubs of course). I'd fold - if he's bluffing then fair play to him cos he's picked a perfect situation.

I agree 100% with this "He has picked the perfect situation for the all in move"

Saying that, its a rebuy and its costing you the remaining 700 of your stack to call to win a almost a 5k pot, so for me its an automatic call here

And after what he showed, you gotta say a call here would be the best move by a long shot 8/1 pot odds and you are only a slight dog

 

[robwhufc]

Saying that, its a rebuy and its costing you the remaining 700 of your stack to call to win a almost a 5k pot, so for me its an automatic call here

Eh, where did you get 700 from? TB still had 3000+ chips, and had to put all of them in to call.

 

[F Paulsson]

It's not an easy fold by any means. As a sidenote (I love making sidenotes), he was actually a favorite to win this hand on the flop. You, on the other hand, of course had the pot odds to justify a call after he re-raised you all-in.

 

[colin_147]

Eh, where did you get 700 from? TB still had 3000+ chips, and had to put all of them in to call.

Missed the bit where he wrote he had 5k

 

[tenbob]

It's not an easy fold by any means. As a sidenote (I love making sidenotes), he was actually a favorite to win this hand on the flop. You, on the other hand, of course had the pot odds to justify a call after he re-raised you all-in.

Now that we know what his hand was sure, id have to call, even if i was a slight under-dog i would have called. The risk being totally drawing dead was too high.

Re-Buy for $50 would have been an option, but it was leaving me with 12.5BB's and really in trouble. Folding left me with 16BB and $50 in my back pocket. Very marginal i know but based on the information i had to fold here.

 

[zinzan1000]

Hmm i wasnt prepared to re-buy if i didnt have to. If im behind in the hand so be it. Anyway i mucked, not easy when you have aces as Rob pointed out.

Our opponent smiled and showed the table an excellent semi-bluff
A♣ J♦ for the nut flush draw and open-ended straight draw. Fine great move by him.

Thats the way i saw it for sure.
His all in bet told me what i needed to know.
He didnt want you in the pot.

On the other hand, if he flopped the nuts and played it the same way and i called him, (which i would of ) i would still be inclined to have the same read as i originally stated and would be fishing for another 50 from my pocket.
Only then, would i be thinking.....That was a fine great move.

You also stated that there were 9 players left and the blinds were 100/200 and that by folding you still had 16BBs remaining as opposed to 10BBs and $50 lighter.
I understand your logic, but with 40% of your chips already commited to this pot and a re-buy option still out there, in my opinion the only thing to do was call.
When i play this format i am always prepared to make a re-buy, if i decide it is to far in to the tourny to be worth my while, then i resign myself to the fact that if i lose this pot then i am going home.

zinzan1000 be lucky

 

[zinzan1000]

I just reread your original post.

Fold = 3000 chips
call = 11,000 chips/rebuy 2500

I would of pushed in so fast i think i might of risked an injury.:vroam:

 

[Fish]

I read the HH and skipped all the posts after it. (I'll read them after posting this opinion)

You have AA "During the rebuy period".
You currently only have double the initial stack.
You have put in 1800 chips in the pot.
This leaves you a mere 700 chips above the starting stack.

As this is a Rebuy tournament, this is an insta-call.

One of two things will happen at the end of this hand if you call him all-in.
a) You will double your mediocre stack into a very large stack.
b) you will lose, BUT, There are now MORE chips on your table for you to try and win, This is NOT a bad thing.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

As this is a Rebuy tournament, this is an insta-call.

Not sure about instant - I'd have to think a little about it, but I agree it's a call.

(a) Because of the obvious reason that if you lose, you can just rebuy (you shouldn't be playing if you're not willing to rebuy at least half a dozen times).

and (b) Because Button's range is generally far wider here than it would be in a standard tourney, and I think with Button pushing a big stack here you're ahead or 50/50 often enough to warrant a call.

A side note, if it isn't a rebuy, this should be a pretty standard fold, and if it isn't for you then you need to learn to get away from big hands on bad flops.

 

[tenbob]

Ok I agree AFTER we know his hand its a call, marginal call but still a call, we have something like a 2% advantage.

But BEFORE we knew it, we have to realise the range of the villans hand is too great. The risk of being totally dead is huge. We could be up against a protection bet against 2-pair or a vunerable set/straight, on a dangerous board. Or an overbet with the made flush would be also valid, he may think i have too many chips invested in the pot to fold.

As for re-buying for the $50, thats not a problem if I KNOW that im still ahead and happen to lose then so be it. But thats something that i dont know.

I stand by the fold.

 

[jay88931]

But BEFORE we knew it, we have to realise the range of the villans hand is too great. The risk of being totally dead is huge.

I think you hit this right on the head. The risk of being dead is too great.

You represented an possible overpair the whole way, and showed no signs of slowing down. So in my book, his re-raise all in indicated that he was stronger than just the Ace of clubs... which meant you were probably facing trips, a made flush or a two way draw. (JJ/AJ/AT with a club)

So that simply leaves you guessing as to whether you're a coin flip, or you're drawing dead.

With 6400 in the pot, and 3000 more to call, even if he's on the draw 1/2 the time you make this call and you're drawing dead the other 1/2... you still come out behind mathematically.

Good fold.

 

[Fish]

A side note, if it isn't a rebuy, this should be a pretty standard fold, and if it isn't for you then you need to learn to get away from big hands on bad flops.

I agree. Insta fold in a non-rebuy.
However, I was discussing the hand in question.
Insta-call. For me anyways.
I'm always happy to add chips to my table. More for me to take later