$5 NL HE MTT: KQ

[Geo90]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

5

Currency

$

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=3a17bDuK

In this race, I made the mistake of imagining myself at the final table, where I would have had a very good chance of getting to. There were about 14 of us still in the game, I thought it would be easy to get there, but it wasn't.

At first I thought I played this hand well, but it couldn't have been a weaker hand.

PF: lifting OK

Flop: I had a top pair at a table full of draw cards, here I could have raised more

Turn: I lifted too much, I just couldn't throw, maybe a 60 thousand giving up would have been better, but with a top pair I couldn't throw, but what could he have had?
AQ is unlikely
Since PF raises back, QJ can be two pairs, or a pair of 66-77 in his hand, I don't think QQ because PF raises back, maybe Q10 is the only card I will beat, I actually look strong here, but in reality I will not beat anyone pushing here, the drawers will not go all-in here because they know they are not that I can throw.

With this hand I managed to deprive myself of a larger prize, I feel

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Standard open. My plan here would be to get it in against a 3-bet from CO or SB but fold, if anyone else jam or 3-bet to a normal size. Of course I call, if someone like clicks it back, but this is the general plan.

Flop
You have top pair good kicker, and the stack to pot ratio is less than 2,5 against both opponents. So this is a situation, where I would be willing to stack off, unless maybe if the turn card is the worst possible like Tc completing multible draws. And since you are out of position, I would make it a 2-street hand. This is a nice line, when there are many draws in your opponents range, since it force them to either give up on the turn or call it off with incorrect odds. So I would tend to go a little bigger here like half pot to set it up for a less than pot sized turn jam.

Turn
Pretty good card that completed QJ but nothing else. Even though a jam is an overbet due to your flop sizing, I still like a jam here. I think, your sizing is a slight mistake, because you are giving him odds to call with combodraws and then give up on the river, when he miss. If you want to make it a 3 street hand, you need to bet much smaller to leave enough stack behind for river play. Like maybe you can bet 40k and then jam most rivers. This will get called wider than a jam and can also look weak and induce him to jam light. But there are many river cards, that you wont like, and which will make your decision difficult. As played you are usually beat, when he jam, but you are getting like 8:1, so you still cant fold.

Results
Dont be results oriented. The guy basically setmined with incorrect implied odds and got rewarded with the perfect flop, that not only gave him a set, but also gave you top pair. The odds of that happening is something like 1:30 to 1:40, so he needs to get paid, when he "bink" this much. The only thing, you can do different here, is sizing postflop, and that would obviously not have changed the result.

 

[primrose]

Yeah I think overall this hand is just fine.

One thing I'd ask about is the format though, 6handed online is usually not very profitable imE. You may want to look at a 9handed tournament instead if it exists; they tend to be softer.

 

[fundiver199]

There were about 14 of us still in the game

One thing I'd ask about is the format though, 6handed online is usually not very profitable imE. You may want to look at a 9handed tournament instead if it exists; they tend to be softer.

With 13 players left a 9-max or 8-max MTT will have one table with 6 players and another with 7. If they were exactly 14 left, maybe someone busted from Heros table recently, and they were still waiting for a player to be moved from the other table. But yeah I would tend to agree, that 6-max MTTs are probably a little bit tougher on average than similar 8-max or 9-max games.

 

[Geo90]

Preflop
Standard open. My plan here would be to get it in against a 3-bet from CO or SB but fold, if anyone else jam or 3-bet to a normal size. Of course I call, if someone like clicks it back, but this is the general plan.

Flop
You have top pair good kicker, and the stack to pot ratio is less than 2,5 against both opponents. So this is a situation, where I would be willing to stack off, unless maybe if the turn card is the worst possible like Tc completing multible draws. And since you are out of position, I would make it a 2-street hand. This is a nice line, when there are many draws in your opponents range, since it force them to either give up on the turn or call it off with incorrect odds. So I would tend to go a little bigger here like half pot to set it up for a less than pot sized turn jam.

Turn
Pretty good card that completed QJ but nothing else. Even though a jam is an overbet due to your flop sizing, I still like a jam here. I think, your sizing is a slight mistake, because you are giving him odds to call with combodraws and then give up on the river, when he miss. If you want to make it a 3 street hand, you need to bet much smaller to leave enough stack behind for river play. Like maybe you can bet 40k and then jam most rivers. This will get called wider than a jam and can also look weak and induce him to jam light. But there are many river cards, that you wont like, and which will make your decision difficult. As played you are usually beat, when he jam, but you are getting like 8:1, so you still cant fold.

Results
Dont be results oriented. The guy basically setmined with incorrect implied odds and got rewarded with the perfect flop, that not only gave him a set, but also gave you top pair. The odds of that happening is something like 1:30 to 1:40, so he needs to get paid, when he "bink" this much. The only thing, you can do different here, is sizing postflop, and that would obviously not have changed the result.

Thanks for your help!

Yes, there was no way I could have folded on the flop, and I also feel that the raise was too small.

But if I go all-in on the turn, I'll never get a surrender from a weaker hand, right? I'll rule out the drawers, but it's also true that I can often find myself in a difficult situation on the river, where I can hardly fold.

In this game, I wanted to find a mistake at all costs. The tournament had been going on for about 5 hours at that point, and I felt like I was getting there today, but I broke down a little with this hand, and I made some bad plays. I'll post more hands from this tournament later.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[Geo90]

Yeah I think overall this hand is just fine.

One thing I'd ask about is the format though, 6handed online is usually not very profitable imE. You may want to look at a 9handed tournament instead if it exists; they tend to be softer.

It was an 8-player game (888poker). I only play 6-player games once a week because of the huge overpayment and few entrants, but there you have to play a much wider preflop range and more aggressively, otherwise I'll always be the blind too quickly But I don't really like 6-player tables, it's harder to play there,but then there were only 12-13 of us left.

 

[fundiver199]

But if I go all-in on the turn, I'll never get a surrender from a weaker hand, right? I'll rule out the drawers, but it's also true that I can often find myself in a difficult situation on the river, where I can hardly fold.

If you jam the turn, you are probably not getting to many worse hands to call, but there are some, and it also depends on the opponent. You are probably getting called by QT, JX of clubs for the pair + draw, and maybe he just dont believe you and call with his 88-TT or A7s. But you are not getting the best risk/reward for a jam, thats mostly for protection, and this is why, I suggest betting a little more on the flop, so that the turn jam become for less than pot. In that way you still get stacked, when you are beat, but you win more, when someone call flop and fold turn.

In this game, I wanted to find a mistake at all costs. The tournament had been going on for about 5 hours at that point, and I felt like I was getting there today, but I broke down a little with this hand, and I made some bad plays. I'll post more hands from this tournament later.

This is probably your key focus point then. Just because you got unlucky and lost half your chips on a cooler like this, you are still not out of the tournament. This morning I played an 18-man SnG, and at some point I was down to 1/3 of the starting stack or so. But then I got lucky and won some hands, and I actually ended up winning the whole tournament. So the old saying about "a chip and a chair" is really true, and with just 14 people left in an MTT a 21BB stack has a lot of value and is totally playable.

 

[eetenor]

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=3a17bDuK

In this race, I made the mistake of imagining myself at the final table, where I would have had a very good chance of getting to. There were about 14 of us still in the game, I thought it would be easy to get there, but it wasn't.

At first I thought I played this hand well, but it couldn't have been a weaker hand.

PF: lifting OK

Flop: I had a top pair at a table full of draw cards, here I could have raised more

Turn: I lifted too much, I just couldn't throw, maybe a 60 thousand giving up would have been better, but with a top pair I couldn't throw, but what could he have had?
AQ is unlikely
Since PF raises back, QJ can be two pairs, or a pair of 66-77 in his hand, I don't think QQ because PF raises back, maybe Q10 is the only card I will beat, I actually look strong here, but in reality I will not beat anyone pushing here, the drawers will not go all-in here because they know they are not that I can throw.

With this hand I managed to deprive myself of a larger prize, I feel

Stopped replay preflop have not read your thoughts yet.

When we study we want to look deeply at each part of the game tree.

KQs is a fine open - What was your plan if you got shoved on? Would it take 2 shoves for you to fold?
What are the playing styles of the V on your table? How might that effect our reaction to a preflop shove?
We are 14 left ICM is a factor. How does ICM effect our preflop decisions? You are the second largest stack on the table so at the minimum you are in 10th does our placement in the field effect our preflop strategy?
Pot= 82500 your V have under 2.5SPR what is our strategy plan post flop vs those stack depths?
1 When we hit
2 When we miss

Does ICM influence that plan? If so how? How might our V play post flop if they are ICM Aware or Ignorant? What is our best guess for A or I?

Flop --we flop top pair second best kicker. From above player profiles will our V have AQ? If not how likely will our V bet?
If they will bet XR jam is best---but if they do not bet we want to lead targeting what hands for what sizes?


this is a good start for study if you are doing this breakdown every hand you study, your action choices will be much clearer.

Turn--Good job of thinking about V range in this hand. Dig deep into the range building and bet sizing vs that range.

One range error on your part-you state draws would not reraise turn but your sizing would force the standard player to either fold or go with the hand at some frequency.


ICM tip if our V are ICM aware smaller bet sizes are effective.

 

[Geo90]

If you jam the turn, you are probably not getting to many worse hands to call, but there are some, and it also depends on the opponent. You are probably getting called by QT, JX of clubs for the pair + draw, and maybe he just dont believe you and call with his 88-TT or A7s. But you are not getting the best risk/reward for a jam, thats mostly for protection, and this is why, I suggest betting a little more on the flop, so that the turn jam become for less than pot. In that way you still get stacked, when you are beat, but you win more, when someone call flop and fold turn.

This is probably your key focus point then. Just because you got unlucky and lost half your chips on a cooler like this, you are still not out of the tournament. This morning I played an 18-man SnG, and at some point I was down to 1/3 of the starting stack or so. But then I got lucky and won some hands, and I actually ended up winning the whole tournament. So the old saying about "a chip and a chair" is really true, and with just 14 people left in an MTT a 21BB stack has a lot of value and is totally playable.

I understand, I just saw this hand too negatively, but there may be weaker hands in the ranking, and there really is a strong draw out there that needs to be defended against.

At times like this, I get worked up and can't see clearly in the next few hands, which is the problem.
Congratulations, nice work. Once in a tournament, I managed to climb back from 3BB, but then I forget about these successes 21BB is still perfectly playable

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[fundiver199]

I understand, I just saw this hand too negatively, but there may be weaker hands in the ranking, and there really is a strong draw out there that needs to be defended against.

There are different ways to play this hand on the turn, that all have their advantages and disadvantages. You can jam, but ideally you should then have bet bigger on the flop as part of your hand planning. Or you can make a small bet, like I already suggested. Or you can even check. Checking is good, if you think, this will induce a lot of bluffs and/or bets for value from a worse hands than yours, that would fold, if you bet.

It would be better to have AA, KK or even AQ here rather than KQ, because then you would beat or chop with AQ and beat KQ. But I still think, KQ is to strong on this board to get away from it, when the opponent only started with around 21BB. Its a different story, if you were 40BB effective with him. Then maybe KQ could become a fold on the river, but not for 21BB, and when all the draws have missed.

 

[Geo90]

There are different ways to play this hand on the turn, that all have their advantages and disadvantages. You can jam, but ideally you should then have bet bigger on the flop as part of your hand planning. Or you can make a small bet, like I already suggested. Or you can even check. Checking is good, if you think, this will induce a lot of bluffs and/or bets for value from a worse hands than yours, that would fold, if you bet.

It would be better to have AA, KK or even AQ here rather than KQ, because then you would beat or chop with AQ and beat KQ. But I still think, KQ is to strong on this board to get away from it, when the opponent only started with around 21BB. Its a different story, if you were 40BB effective with him. Then maybe KQ could become a fold on the river, but not for 21BB, and when all the draws have missed.

Thank you for the confirmation, once again, this was useful information.

After this hand, the following occurred: https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=3a17bDy4

PF BB could be given F was quite favorable for me, there were quite a few draws. This half-pot bet is interesting, he could have a lot of Ks, either two pairs KQ K9 Q9, or a flush draw. Here, after a raise, it would have been possible to go all-in, but for pot control, the call may not be bad.

R is another half-pot call, the fold was a mistake, I need a 25% share, which I had here, I should have called, he definitely wouldn't have folded to an all-in.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[Geo90]

I know GTO doesn't matter at this level, but I just looked at it out of curiosity.

 

[fundiver199]

After this hand, the following occurred: https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=3a17bDy4

Preflop
It would not be crazy to fold, but in general its ok to defend any suited hand to a min-raise, when there is an ante.

Flop
You flopped a flushdraw and a gutshot draw, and if you call, there is only around a half pot sized bet left. In this kind of situation I have a strong preference for check-jamming. I think, you have at least some fold equity, and it makes sure, you dont face any awkward situations on the turn, as - spoiler alert - is exactly, what happened here.

Turn
He is betting half his remaining stack, so I dont think, you have any fold equity now. You did make a pair, but this only put you ahead of A high or undercards to the board, and I think, the only such hands, that are still betting, are AX of hearts, that has a flushdraw. At the same time hitting a pair counterfeited your gutshot draw, and you only have one card left to make a flush.

You say, you are getting odds to call, but if you are behind, thats not really true, because you are only getting 3:1, and a 9 out draw does not have 25% equity. He does have a little more behind, you can win on the river, so if you count those implied odds, you are getting closer to 4:1 and only need 20% equity. However hitting a flush will not always give you the best hand. Sometimes you will run into a better flush or a full house.

There are also considerations about future play, because if you call and then fold to a river jam, it will leave you with less than 8BB, and then you can no longer rejam over an open and expect to have fold equity. Whereas if you fold now, you will play on with 13BB, which is a much better situation. So all in all I agree with your decision to let it go here.

 

[primrose]

I think you should just check-jam the Flop or open-jam the Turn if Flop goes check-check. We should have a little Fold equity even though the board is good for the raiser's range. The only reason for me to do sth different is if he bets large, then I just fold, but that wasn't the case here.

 

[Geo90]

Preflop
It would not be crazy to fold, but in general its ok to defend any suited hand to a min-raise, when there is an ante.

Flop
You flopped a flushdraw and a gutshot draw, and if you call, there is only around a half pot sized bet left. In this kind of situation I have a strong preference for check-jamming. I think, you have at least some fold equity, and it makes sure, you dont face any awkward situations on the turn, as - spoiler alert - is exactly, what happened here.

Turn
He is betting half his remaining stack, so I dont think, you have any fold equity now. You did make a pair, but this only put you ahead of A high or undercards to the board, and I think, the only such hands, that are still betting, are AX of hearts, that has a flushdraw. At the same time hitting a pair counterfeited your gutshot draw, and you only have one card left to make a flush.

You say, you are getting odds to call, but if you are behind, thats not really true, because you are only getting 3:1, and a 9 out draw does not have 25% equity. He does have a little more behind, you can win on the river, so if you count those implied odds, you are getting closer to 4:1 and only need 20% equity. However hitting a flush will not always give you the best hand. Sometimes you will run into a better flush or a full house.

There are also considerations about future play, because if you call and then fold to a river jam, it will leave you with less than 8BB, and then you can no longer rejam over an open and expect to have fold equity. Whereas if you fold now, you will play on with 13BB, which is a much better situation. So all in all I agree with your decision to let it go here.

In retrospect, I also like the check the most, I have a lot of outs, I have fold equity, but I wanted to get to the final table so badly that I played passively instead.

 

[primrose]

It's a super common problem. even more common in high-stakes tournaments. You should actually do the opposite (because everyone is being timid & hence likelier to fold) and loosen the jam button, but actually doing it is really tough.

 

[Geo90]

It's a super common problem. even more common in high-stakes tournaments. You should actually do the opposite (because everyone is being timid & hence likelier to fold) and loosen the jam button, but actually doing it is really tough.

Yes, in such cases, it takes a few days, and a difficult hand seems much easier when you can see things clearly. I was on a losing hand, which had a negative impact on my next hands, and I ended up being eliminated from the tournament. Even if you play for 4-5 hours and have a lot of chips, one or two bad decisions can cost you the tournament.
Yes, that's very true. You have to play the opposite of how the table is playing, but I'm learning a lot from you guys, and I'll make it to the final table in a bigger tournament

 

[sandy358]

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/?hand=3a17bDuK

In this race, I made the mistake of imagining myself at the final table, where I would have had a very good chance of getting to. There were about 14 of us still in the game, I thought it would be easy to get there, but it wasn't.

At first I thought I played this hand well, but it couldn't have been a weaker hand.

PF: lifting OK

Flop: I had a top pair at a table full of draw cards, here I could have raised more

Turn: I lifted too much, I just couldn't throw, maybe a 60 thousand giving up would have been better, but with a top pair I couldn't throw, but what could he have had?
AQ is unlikely
Since PF raises back, QJ can be two pairs, or a pair of 66-77 in his hand, I don't think QQ because PF raises back, maybe Q10 is the only card I will beat, I actually look strong here, but in reality I will not beat anyone pushing here, the drawers will not go all-in here because they know they are not that I can throw.

With this hand I managed to deprive myself of a larger prize, I feel

It's fine. You have top pair with an overcard kicker, block half of the kings and with two hearts you unblock a lot of turn flush draw bluffs that only have 18% chance to hit.

2BB open is kinda small for 40BB deep tho, but it's unrelated.