$3 NLHE STT: Fold 2 pair on the River?

[tzuriel]

This is a hand from a single table microstake SnG. Very early. Blinds are 15/30
UTG+1 limps and there's a standard raise from what is now the LJ (8 handed)
I call from the BTN with KJo and the blinds come along and the limper calls too. 4 to a flop
I flop middle pair and it checks around. I didn't think I needed to bet here as any one of the other players could have checked a Q. Correct?
The 8 on the T looks meaningless but the SB leads out for like 14bb. Should I be worried about a set? I call to see what happens on the River and I hit a K. But he slams 35bb in there. Should I fold to this River bet? Thanks for your feedback!
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/3q1CqY6v
[FONT=Whitney, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
NL Holdem $3+$0.30 (30.00BB)
HJ (59.7BBs)
CO (55.4BBs)
HERO (107.9BBs)
SB (135.3BBs)
BB (44.1BBs)
UTG (57BBs)
EP (88.5BBs)
MP (52BBs)

Dealt to Hero: K♥ J♣

UTG Folds, EP Calls 1BBs, MP Raises To 3.6BBs, HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Calls 3.5BBs, SB Calls 3BBs, BB Calls 2.5BBs, EP Calls 2.5BBs

Hero SPR on Flop: [2.21 effective]
Flop (18.3BBs): Q♦ 3♥ J♠
SB Checks, BB Checks, EP Checks, MP Checks, HERO Checks

Turn (18.3BBs): Q♦ 3♥ J♠ 8♥
SB Bets 14.1BBs (Rem. Stack: 117.6BBs), BB Folds, EP Folds, MP Folds, HERO Calls 14.1BBs (Rem. Stack: 90.2BBs)

River (46.5BBs): Q♦ 3♥ J♠ 8♥ K♣
SB Bets 35.8BBs (Rem. Stack: 81.8BBs), HERO Calls 35.8BBs (Rem. Stack: 54.4BBs)

Spoiler

SB shows: 8♦ 8♠

SB wins: 118.1BBs

[/FONT]

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I am ok making this call. Its just important to be aware, that your main reason for calling here is to get involved with the limper in position. Your goal is not to play a big pot against MP with top pair. If flop comes K83 or J72, and MP continue firing, you need to be able to let it go.

Flop
Definitely no reason to bet with second pair in a 5-way pot.

Turn
You ask, if you should be worried about SB having a set. And yes you should. But you should also be very vorried about him having a Q. He has just naturally checked to the preflop raiser on the flop, so his range is completely uncapped. Maybe he dont have JJ-AA, because he would have 3-bet those preflop, but he can certainly have hands like AQ, KQ or QJ as well as 88 and 33. T9 made a straight, and thats also a hand, he could have, at least T9s. So this call is just way to loose, especially when he bet almost the full size of the pot into 4 other players.

River
You improve to two pair, and I guess, the hand is to high in your range to fold now. When we face a river bet, the first thing, we should ask, is, if we beat any hands, our opponent might bet for value? And in this case I think, you do. He could have QJ and bet it for value, or maybe a hand like AQ, where he dont really know, what to do, so he just ships it in. Something you were behind to on the turn but sucked out on. Whenever we potentially beat some value, the discussion typically end there, and we have to call, even if we will win less than half the time.

Results
So he had 88 and turned a set. If you just fold to that turn bet, you dont improve on the river, and the problem is solved.

 

[ElmerS]

Preflop

I am ok with the call but personally I prefer folding without knowing my opponent.
The hand is not that strong and we already knew that we would play at least 3-way on the flop. But I would call this sometimes so it´s not that bad

Flop

The flop is 5-way. OMG. Don´t forget that a player needs a hand of his top 25% (Axs, PP, Broadways or strong suited hands) to make a call so it´s very likely that one of them has a Q. Just checking and maybe folding to a bet is fine on this flop

Turn

We made it to the turn. Celebration is over when you see the action of the SB because he is representing a really strong hand.
If it would be a heads-up flop, this would be a snapcall. But because this is a flop with 5 persons your opponent´s need to be really strong to bet into 4 players so you have to respect that. If he would bluff this sometimes he would probaly use hands like KT or a flushdraw and with your Kh your limit his options to have a hand like that because he can´t have the Kh for his flushdraw and his KT combo´s.
So it´s more likely is valuebetting instead of bluffing.
Not even considered that a player on these stakes mostly bluff to less in these spots.

River

If you called anyways there is no way back on this river

 

[WickedFRoST]

You can't call the turn bet with 2nd pair here being 5 ways in the pot. Not a single value hand you beat and most bluffs have decent equity against you.

Multiway pots are super underbluffed, which is another reason to snap fold KJ here. you only invested 3bb preflop, so you're not really invested. calling 14bb on the turn here is just burning money, even if you had a Q here. It is almost never good.

 

[IADaveMark]

[FONT=Whitney, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
UTG Folds, EP Calls 1BBs, MP Raises To 3.6BBs, HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Calls 3.5BBs, SB Calls 3BBs, BB Calls 2.5BBs, EP Calls 2.5BBs[/FONT]

I'm OK with this call simply because we are IP and seriously priced in at this point. If either SB or BB tried to steal this with a raise, we might have to consider folding. But again, in position. And depends on how big the raise is.

Flop (18.3BBs): Q♦ 3♥ J♠
SB Checks, BB Checks, EP Checks, MP Checks, HERO Checks

You can check this through, but also bet it because of position. If it doesn't chase out everyone, it will likely chase out those that missed. Even 1/4-1/3 pot will do it most of the time.

Turn (18.3BBs): Q♦ 3♥ J♠ 8♥
SB Bets 14.1BBs (Rem. Stack: 117.6BBs), BB Folds, EP Folds, MP Folds, HERO Calls 14.1BBs (Rem. Stack: 90.2BBs)

I agree with the others that the size of that bet is a bit concerning. Possible stories here:

• V hit an 8—either as a pair or a set
• V has a weak Q or a J and was happy that an over didn't come
• V has T9 (although that might be a smaller bet there)
• V has 2 hearts and is semi-bluffing

This is a tough call for that size. I might have made it myself, though.

River (46.5BBs): Q♦ 3♥ J♠ 8♥ K♣
SB Bets 35.8BBs (Rem. Stack: 81.8BBs), HERO Calls 35.8BBs (Rem. Stack: 54.4BBs)

This isn't as sexy of a river as it looks. T9 improved slightly and AT just got there. The flush didn't and V might be trying to continue selling the (now defunct) semi-bluff. (The flush draw may have been Kx of hearts, too.) And then what was the flop bet about anyway? Both of these bets were so large that I have to feel that even having 2 pair isn't going to hold up on this board. What could he have felt so good about then and now both?