$1.08 NL HE MTT: SB vs BB

[mariussica88]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

1.08

Game Options

1. Bounty

Currency

$

This is a $1.08 Bounty Hunters tournament, we are into the money places with 70 players left. I have no info other then the GG HUD. The BB was just moved to my table and this is his first hand.



How would you guys played here? Is taking a passive root here wrong? Is calling almost pot on the flop wrong? With what hands does he bet that big?

Spoiler: What I think he has

( I was thinking like 7x, 9x, maybe Tx with a bad kicker....I don't think he bets like this with AT,KT, TT, QT )

GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - 10,000/20,000 (3,000 ante) - 6 players

UTG: 259,420 (13 bb)
MP: 406,403 (20 bb)
CO: 496,693 (25 bb)
BU: 1,311,055 (66 bb)
SB (Hero): 628,741 (31 bb)
BB: 1,136,242 (57 bb)

Pre-Flop: (48,000) Hero is SB with 6♠ T♠
4 players fold, Hero calls 10,000, BB checks

Flop: (58,000) 9♠ 7♠ T♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 45,240, Hero calls 45,240

Turn: (148,480) K♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 115,815, Hero calls 115,815

River: (380,110) K♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 460,000, Hero ?

 

[puzzlefish]

This smells a lot like a BB special where SB limp completes and BB flops a monster.

I would put him on a two pair like 97, T7 or maybe KT. I think he would have raised 99, 77 so those are unlikely. Could he have slow played AKs, AA, KK? Maybe, but not very likely. There are also flush draws possible that may be trying to bluff you off a hand, although less likely due to you also having a flush draw.

Anyway, I know it looks like big sizing but really it's still only 2.3bb into a pot of 2.8bb on the flop, 5.8bb into 7.4bb on the turn, and then 23bb into 19bb overnet on the river.

I think KT makes the most sense, BB has a pretty large stack at this stage of the game so he probably knows what he is doing, and polarized overbets at this level are rarely bluffs.

I think you played the hand fine - hard to get away from the flush draw on the flop for that price and you could improve on the turn. Maybe you could find a fold on the turn when the K shows up and villain keeps betting hard. It's difficult to justify continuing on the hopes that maybe he is airball bluffing here, because it's just very rarely seen.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Given that BB is the bigger stack, I like your decision to limp. If it was the other way around, you can sometimes raise a hand like this to apply pressure.

Flop
You can either bet or check-call here, and both have merits. If you check-call, you open the door for him to bluff, and you will have to get a bit sticky on later rounds. This is just something to keep in mind.

Turn
Not a great card, since now you lose to KX, and QJ also got there. But you still have a flushdraw, so even with his large sizing, I think, you have a pretty mandatory call.

River
At this point I would fold without reads. He could be bluffing, but he has been pretty consistent about showing strenght on all 3 streets postflop, and you are not getting a good price. So if he bluffed you, then well done by him.

 

[fundiver199]

Maybe you could find a fold on the turn when the K shows up and villain keeps betting hard. It's difficult to justify continuing on the hopes that maybe he is airball bluffing here, because it's just very rarely seen.

But on the turn we are not only bluffcathing. We also have 9 outs to a flush, 3 outs to a straight and 5 outs to trips or two pair, which could also put us ahead of some value hands like 97. And if his range is so strong, then for sure we have implied odds, if we make a flush. If he has a straight or two pair, he is not going to bomb the flop and turn only to fold on the river, when the flushdraw complete. So we can lead into him and expect to pretty much always get paid.

 

[puzzlefish]

But on the turn we are not only bluffcathing. We also have 9 outs to a flush, 3 outs to a straight and 5 outs to trips or two pair, which could also put us ahead of some value hands like 97. And if his range is so strong, then for sure we have implied odds, if we make a flush. If he has a straight or two pair, he is not going to bomb the flop and turn only to fold on the river, when the flushdraw complete. So we can lead into him and expect to pretty much always get paid.

It looks like a counterintuitive spot that probably mathematically you are right but intuitively seems like we are chasing a bad flush on the turn with 21% of our stack, that is also going to lose against full houses and better flushes when we do get there, unless we bink an on the river. And if villain happens to have , well then we are drawing to that one card. Our actual equity is likely between 20-30% and the villain is giving us pot odds right at 30%. In all likelihood our equity is probably closer to 20% than 30%.

 

[puzzlefish]

This hand is getting way too much real estate in my head. I was thinking about it again and another hand that makes a lot of sense for villain to hold here is actually 8J, especially suited of spades. So we have to include that in the range along with other 8X as well who may be drawing to a flush and/or a straight too.

 

[fundiver199]

but intuitively seems like we are chasing a bad flush on the turn with 21% of our stack, that is also going to lose against full houses and better flushes when we do get there, unless we bink an on the river. And if villain happens to have , well then we are drawing to that one card.

Its not a paired board, so unless the river is specifically , we can not get coolered by a full house. We might get overflushed, but given how wide ranges are in a blind vs. blind situation I dont think, its anything to worry about at all. Yes there is , but that is literally one combo among a million others.

 

[puzzlefish]

Its not a paired board, so unless the river is specifically , we can not get coolered by a full house. We might get overflushed, but given how wide ranges are in a blind vs. blind situation I dont think, its anything to worry about at all. Yes there is , but that is literally one combo among a million others.

Yes, I don't mean we just have to worry about being coolered, just that there are quite a range of results that will put us behind by the river. Yes the Ks and QsJs are the worst of them, but there are so many others that we are still behind unless we are hoping it is an airball bluff. Am I off on my equity estimation?

 

[fundiver199]

Am I off on my equity estimation?

If we start by giving the opponent a range of only strong made hands, which will be all the straights, all the two pair except K9 and K7 (because of the big flop bet) and 77 (99 and TT probably raise pre), then we have 25% equity. If we add in KQ and KJ for some more thin value bets with top pair, we have 27%. However if we also give him draws, then we have a lot more.

Because he got to see a free flop, he can basically have anything, so all the flushdraws and also all the unpaired 8X, which is an OESD. If he bluff with all of these, we actually have 54% equity, so we are not even behind. In reality he is probably not bluffing for this sizing with all his draws, so a realistic estimate is closer to 27% than 54%. But since we only need 30%, it is to tight to fold on the turn.

 

[primrose]

Preflop: limping is okay

Rest: Alright so most of the time when you have a powerful combo draw, you want to play it very aggressively, and even though Villain bet very large, I don't think this is an exception. You should probably raise the Flop, and if not, you should only call it with the intention of raising the Turn instead.

The reason is that you have good equity against almost everything so if your semi=bluff fails and you get called down, it's not even that bad, whereas if you get a fold, it's very good since your hand isn't that strong as-is. So the incentive of bluffing is just very high. In this case, if opponent has Aces, say, then your outs are every spade, and every 6, 8, and T, so that's 16 outs. That's a lot.

In this case you also have top pair, which can be a reason for not going super aggro maybe (because you could already be good), but only on the Flop; you're not expecting to win with your pair of tens once the Turn card comes out. And idk if you're really expecting it on the Flop, either. So yeah you either need to raise the Flop or Turn. Calling both is a huge mistake, imho.

So I think the proper way to play this is to raise Flop to maybe 150000, which if it gets called makes the Pot on the Turn about 458000. Then you can just open-jam the Turn. You should get more than enough fold equity to make this play profitable. Alternatively, you check-call Flop and check-jam the Turn. But you should always be looking to get your money in with a hand like this. Don't just play your combo draws passively.

 

[Rldetheflop]

This could be a learning case for me. Why is limping in ok? We are down to about 30BB and the BB has nearly twice our stack. Even suited T6 is junk and I don't want to play this post flop out of position I personally would rather save my chip for a better spot.

 

[fundiver199]

This could be a learning case for me. Why is limping in ok?

Because there is an ante, which mean we pay 10k to win 58k. In a non ante game we would fold and give BB a walk.

We are down to about 30BB and the BB has nearly twice our stack.

If he is very aggressive and attacking our limps a lot, then we can consider folding. But since he took a free flop, apparently that was not the case here.

Even suited T6 is junk and I don't want to play this post flop out of position I personally would rather save my chip for a better spot.

Its not a great hand, but we are against a range of literally any two, so most of the time he dont have a great hand either. In general, when we SB limp, the strategy is to do a lot of stabbing on the flop, and we could have done that here as well.

 

[Geo90]

Preflop: limping is okay

Rest: Alright so most of the time when you have a powerful combo draw, you want to play it very aggressively, and even though Villain bet very large, I don't think this is an exception. You should probably raise the Flop, and if not, you should only call it with the intention of raising the Turn instead.

The reason is that you have good equity against almost everything so if your semi=bluff fails and you get called down, it's not even that bad, whereas if you get a fold, it's very good since your hand isn't that strong as-is. So the incentive of bluffing is just very high. In this case, if opponent has Aces, say, then your outs are every spade, and every 6, 8, and T, so that's 16 outs. That's a lot.

In this case you also have top pair, which can be a reason for not going super aggro maybe (because you could already be good), but only on the Flop; you're not expecting to win with your pair of tens once the Turn card comes out. And idk if you're really expecting it on the Flop, either. So yeah you either need to raise the Flop or Turn. Calling both is a huge mistake, imho.

So I think the proper way to play this is to raise Flop to maybe 150000, which if it gets called makes the Pot on the Turn about 458000. Then you can just open-jam the Turn. You should get more than enough fold equity to make this play profitable. Alternatively, you check-call Flop and check-jam the Turn. But you should always be looking to get your money in with a hand like this. Don't just play your combo draws passively.

Lately,i have been Washington Bencb ,and he would also play a chek raise on a flop like this,I like that best too, on the flop,he has strong cards with good draws,and i think a check raise always means strength

 

[eetenor]

This is a $1.08 Bounty Hunters tournament, we are into the money places with 70 players left. I have no info other then the GG HUD. The BB was just moved to my table and this is his first hand.

View attachment 392969

How would you guys played here? Is taking a passive root here wrong? Is calling almost pot on the flop wrong? With what hands does he bet that big?

Spoiler: What I think he has

( I was thinking like 7x, 9x, maybe Tx with a bad kicker....I don't think he bets like this with AT,KT, TT, QT )

GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - 10,000/20,000 (3,000 ante) - 6 players

UTG: 259,420 (13 bb)
MP: 406,403 (20 bb)
CO: 496,693 (25 bb)
BU: 1,311,055 (66 bb)
SB (Hero): 628,741 (31 bb)
BB: 1,136,242 (57 bb)

Pre-Flop: (48,000) Hero is SB with 6♠ T♠
4 players fold, Hero calls 10,000, BB checks

Flop: (58,000) 9♠ 7♠ T♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 45,240, Hero calls 45,240

Turn: (148,480) K♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 115,815, Hero calls 115,815

River: (380,110) K♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 460,000, Hero ?

When we play BMTT the #1 rule is when we are bounty available, we play like a nit. How would a nit play this hand?

Preflop flatting to fold when raised is fine---NIT play is to fold preflop with a hand this weak OOP-- We want T9s T8s at the bottom of our Tx hands

Flop----What range did you give the big stack for flatting behind you? Do they have TT 99 77 AA AKss what do they have?
We hit this board very hard in a limped pot. Why would we check call? Why check OOP in a BMTT when V will call wide to get bounties?
What hands does the BB want to bet that size on flop? That size is polar. Polar means they have bluffs if they have bluffs are we not calling river?
If we are not calling river because they do not have bluffs, why are we checking flop? If we lead flop and get raised, we have clarity on BB range we can then fold river as they would have fewer bluffs maybe.

If we do not have the skill to play this spot well than be a NIT and fold preflop- it's ok in BMTT NIT play is #1 rule OOP with a weaker hand vs a big stack when we cover 3 other players on the table.

When we struggle in a spot like this it is always best to not get ourselves in this spot until we study enough to be able to play these spots well.