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Message: [QUOTE="primrose, post: 7197864, member: 1036998"] When I first tried GGPoker about two years ago, and even more as I continued using it, I had this continuous realization of just how cynical a company can be. Like, I knew that all poker sites try to maximize profit, but the utter lack of shame and willingness to play dirty to drive engagement was genuinely impressive. I knew that this probably meant the level of play was pretty low, so ironically the presentation is actually a reason to stay on the platform (softer field than PokerStars), but I immediately understood what I was looking it. However... when I make the occasional comments in this forum about how GGPoker is obviously horrible, I usually get surprised responses. It seems like most people have no idea what I'm even talking about. Like, why would I call them shameless/unethical? What's worse about GGPOker than any other site? And I don't think people are being deliberately obtuse when they say this, so I thought I'd make a thread explaining it. In a nutshell, the reason for the title is this: we know a lot from psychology about how the appeal of gambling (and gambling addiction in the extreme) works, and[B] GGPoker is deliberately designed to maxmize gambling addiction in its users.[/B] Nothing about its weird and complex reward system is an accident; all of it has been delibaretely optimized, from someone who is evidently familiar with the research on gambling, to exploit people's desire in the most cynical way possible. And the sheer scale of it is just breathtaking. Other sites may have one or two quirks that go in this direction -- e.g., PokerStars made a step toward delibrate exploitation when they changed their reward system from a flat payout (each star = 1ct) to a randomized, chest-based system. But on GGPoker, it's literally everywhere. So what are those psychological principles that GGPoker is exploiting? Well, here's Claude summarizing them. (Claude is a Large Language Model, essentially a competitor to ChatGPT, you can use it [URL='https://claude.ai/']here[/URL].) Note that I didn't ask it to apply this to GGPoker, I just asked it how casinos design slot machines, which is the stereotypical invention that drives people with gambling addiction into ruin. It just naturally applies to GGPoker because their entire site is designed like a huge slot machine: [ATTACH type="full" alt="1758372457161.png"]393143[/ATTACH] (Spoiler for text version) [SPOILER] [B]Prim: [/B]Describe the basic principles behind the allure of gambling and how they influence the design principles of slot machines (from the perspective of the casino). [B]Claude: [/B]Casinos design slot machines to leverage several powerful psychological principles that make gambling compelling: [HEADING=1]The Variable Ratio Reinforcement Schedule[/HEADING] The most fundamental principle is [B]unpredictable, intermittent rewards[/B]. Slot machines don't pay out on a fixed schedule - you never know if the next spin will win. This variable ratio schedule creates the strongest behavioral conditioning, far more addictive than predictable rewards. Players keep pulling because the next spin could always be "the one." [HEADING=1]Near-Miss Engineering[/HEADING] Modern slots are carefully programmed to show "near misses" - where symbols almost line up for a big win. These near-misses trigger similar brain activity to actual wins, maintaining excitement and the feeling that victory is just within reach. The reels might show two jackpot symbols with the third just one position off, creating the illusion that you were "so close." [HEADING=1]The Illusion of Control[/HEADING] Despite being games of pure chance, slots incorporate elements that make players feel they have influence: [LIST] [*]Buttons to stop the reels (which don't actually affect predetermined outcomes) [*]Choices between different games or bonus rounds [*]Adjustable bet sizes and number of lines played [/LIST] These features create a false sense that skill or strategy matters, when outcomes are actually determined by random number generators the moment you press "spin." [HEADING=1]Sensory Immersion and Flow States[/HEADING] Casinos design machines to create a hypnotic "machine zone" where players lose track of time and outside concerns. This involves: [LIST] [*]Comfortable ergonomics that allow hours of continuous play [*]Smooth, rapid gameplay with minimal interruption [*]Enveloping sound designs with celebratory music for wins [*]Visual effects that make small wins feel significant [*]Curved screens that create a cocoon-like feeling [/LIST] [HEADING=1]Loss Disguised as Wins[/HEADING] Modern multi-line slots often celebrate "wins" that are actually net losses. If you bet $3 across multiple lines and win $1, the machine still plays victory sounds and animations. This tricks the brain into feeling rewarded even while losing money, maintaining the dopamine response that drives continued play. [HEADING=1]The Cashless Illusion[/HEADING] Converting money to credits creates psychological distance from real value. Betting "100 credits" feels less significant than betting $100, even when they're equivalent. Digital displays and card-based systems further abstract the relationship with actual money, reducing the psychological pain of losses. [HEADING=1]Incremental Commitment[/HEADING] Slots are designed for low minimum bets, making initial engagement feel low-risk. But rapid play means these small bets accumulate quickly. The "foot in the door" principle means once someone starts playing, they're more likely to continue and escalate their betting. [HEADING=1]The Availability Heuristic[/HEADING] Casinos ensure big wins are highly visible and memorable - flashing lights, loud celebrations, prominent placement of progressive jackpot displays. This makes jackpots seem more common than they are, as players overestimate probabilities based on these salient examples while the countless losses remain invisible. These principles work together to create what researchers call a "behavioral addiction" - the compulsion comes not from a substance but from the carefully engineered experience itself. The casino's goal is to maximize "time on device," knowing that the mathematical edge ensures profitability over time. Every design element, from the angle of the seat to the frequency of small wins, is optimized through extensive testing to keep players engaged as long as possible. Understanding these mechanisms can help people make more informed decisions about gambling, recognizing that the feeling of being "due for a win" or "on a hot streak" are illusions created by design, not genuine patterns in random events. [/SPOILER] If you're familiar with GGPoker at all you probably don't need further explanation for how this applies to their platform, but ehh I want to make sure everyone gets it, so I'll spell out anyway. So here's all the ways they're doing this: [LIST] [*][B]Variable Ratio Schedule: [/B]yup, literally everything about their reward system is designed to be random and variable, rather than steady and predictable [*][B]Near-Miss Engineering: [/B]yup, and in more ways than you think. Not only do they make every River feel like a near miss by opening the card slowly, they also allow you to view the cards that could have come after folding, and their Flipout tournaments are delibaretly designed to make you feel like you could have won a lot more (because their payouts start at 0, then increase, then actually stays quite shallow for a while, so you really don't win much more by going further, and then steeply increases near the very end where you almost never get). And you constantly see how other people are winning huge. [*][B]Illusion of Control: [/B]yup, lots of control, all the stupid games that you can't beat like all-in or fold still have choice, even the reward system leaves you with choice [*][B]Sensory Immersion: [/B]yup, in almost every way [LIST] [*][B]Smooth, Rapid Gameplay: [/B]yup, client is very smooth [*][B]Enveloping sound designs with celebratory music for wins: [/B]literally yes (they're so shameless, even now I'm just in awe reflecting on it) [*][B]Visual effects that make small wins feel significant: [/B]yup, that's there [*][B]Curved screens/comfortable ergonomics:[/B] n/a since you play at home; the interface looks really nice I guess. If they could do this more, I'm sure they would, too. [/LIST] [*][B]Loss Disguised as Wins: [/B]yup, that's there, you get big flashy victory animations for minor wins all the time. Also the PokerCraft thing literally shows you your results without rake, tricking you into thinking you win. [*][B]Incremental Commitment/Foot-in-the-door Effect:[/B] yup, also there, and again in more ways than you think. E.g., their reward system actually incentivizes playing new formats; you temporarily get more fish buffet points if you try something new. [*][B]The Availability Heuristic (making big wins visibe): [/B]absolutely there; they rub your face into other people's big wins all the time, and you can't turn it off [/LIST] If I were going through this text with marker highlighting everything that applies, I'd just color the entire text. They're that shameless. And somewhow even this doesn't quite capture the extent to which they play dirty. At least in casinos, it's common knowledge how much a slot machine pays out in expectation. GGPoker refuses to even tell you how their reward system works. At least in casinos, they don't lie to you about future progress. GGPoker literally had their honeymoon system where they offer to 250$ for completion if you complete one task every day for I think a month, and then they make each task take 10-30 minutes only to bury one near the end that is essentially unbeatable, ensuring that you can't win unless you get extremely lucky. They literally have no shame. Does this mean you shouldn't play on the site? No. I mean you probably shouldn't because their rake is super high. But as I said in the beginning, the presentation is proabbly a reason to play because it will disproportionately attract gamblers rather than poker players; it encourages all of the wrong ways to thinik about the game, so it attracs all of the people who don't know how to play. So yeah, you can use the site if you want. I did. But err yeah you might wanna know what you're dealing with. And again, you may say something like "well all companies try to maximize profit" but this is literally not true as demonstrated by literally ever other poker site refusing to go this low. They're trying to maximize profit to an extent, but they have some scruples, and they fall short of blatantly trying to fuel your addiction. GGPoker does not. So yeah, if you are a poker player, the rake is hard to beat, but you can play on the site for practice against weak players. If you have a gambling problem though, stay as far away from the site as possible; it's trying to drive you into ruin. [/QUOTE]

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