Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
You are risking at least 6 months of arrest in jail.
CoinPoker is not on the GGL Whitelist, there you can find all allowed Sites for German poker players.
Additional look here what can happen when you play illegally (poker, slots, sportsbetting) on non licensed platforms.
CoinPoker is not on the GGL Whitelist, there you can find all allowed Sites for German poker players.
Additional look here what can happen when you play illegally (poker, slots, sportsbetting) on non licensed platforms.
Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
Sorry to say that they (Phenom Poker, CoinPoker) operate illegally in germany.
All players risk losing their money and an up to 6 months arrest in jail due to illegal gambling.
See Glückspielstatsvertrag, GGL, Whitelist
(online poker rooms that have a legit license for Germany, pokerstars, 888 Poker, GG-Poker, party poker, bwin poker and bpremium, last two are party poker skins).
GGL illegal luck gambling
A quote:
Ist illegales Glücksspiel eine Straftat?
Ja, gemäß § 284 und § 285 des Strafgesetzbuches (StGB) ist sowohl das Veranstalten als auch die Teilnahme an unerlaubtem Glücksspiel strafbar.
Es drohen Freiheitsstrafen bis zu sechs Monaten oder Geldstrafen.
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X
XM_
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Are there any examples of people actually getting arrested for this? Seems like the type of thing where governments would just go after companies with fines
G0930
Captain Fathermucker, Satty Aficionado
Loyaler
We have the same fine but it's never enforced.
Pokerstars operating illegaly in austria and never ever was a player fined.
On the contrary. Because of their lack of license many players got their money back from casinogames.
Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
I don´t know who holds licenses in Austria.
I know that only state licensed services like state casinos and win2day are official licensed there.
G0930
Captain Fathermucker, Satty Aficionado
Loyaler
In fact no pokerroom got a license in Austria.
As you said only win2day.
I presume the forementioned stgb paragraph only applies to private games held in Austria.
Cause onlinepoker isn't illegal they simply never issued a license.
Even if it would apply it's obviously not enforced over here.
Otherwise it would be impossible for Pokerstars and others operating here for decades
X
XM_
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Just a genuine question as claiming “risking 6 months in prison” comes across as a scare tactic to try and push people to the licensed sites
G0930
Captain Fathermucker, Satty Aficionado
Loyaler
I doubt it will be enforced but it's in fact illegal.
Ha found an answer.
They don't care about them operating illegaly.
They even protect players from losses xD (doesnt apply to losses in poker though)
Tu Felix Austria
Oberster Gerichtshof ermöglicht „risikoloses“ Glücksspiel bei illegalen Onlinecasinos
Wien (OTS) - Sensation vor dem Obersten Gerichtshof, der OGH spricht aus, dass ein Spieler von einem illegalen Glücksspielanbieter seine Verluste zurückfordern kann, selbst wenn er im Zeitpunkt des Sp...
Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
The German one is not only for private games also for online poker.
Many online poker rooms geo block German IP´s directly on their website,
because they don’t want to risk costly lawsuits.
Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
Yeah, we have the same law construct (was EU law enforcement) but in Germany if you go to court after the new Glücksspielstaatsvertrag (enforced 2023) and you claim losses after enforcements you will get also this STGB punishments.I doubt it will be enforced but it's in fact illegal.
Ha found an answer.
They don't care about them operating illegaly.
They even protect players from losses xD (doesnt apply to losses in poker though)
Tu Felix Austria
Oberster Gerichtshof ermöglicht „risikoloses“ Glücksspiel bei illegalen Onlinecasinos
Wien (OTS) - Sensation vor dem Obersten Gerichtshof, der OGH spricht aus, dass ein Spieler von einem illegalen Glücksspielanbieter seine Verluste zurückfordern kann, selbst wenn er im Zeitpunkt des Sp...www.ots.at
Germany wanted to stop lawsuits for losses, for the massively overwhelmed Justice in Germany.
A clever trick invented from lawyers.
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G0930
Captain Fathermucker, Satty Aficionado
Loyaler
Clever way to minimize lawsuits.
And also a good way to punish people for playing illegaly.
I doubt they could catch anyone another way.
Can't imagine Germany investing money to enforce that silly stgb paragraph
Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
Well only if they have hints (there is a special setup for that on the GGL website, denunciation may be hard coded in the DNA)
and do law enforced surveillance of internet traffic.
Another option for hints may be the banking/payment systems and the tax office system.
G0930
Captain Fathermucker, Satty Aficionado
Loyaler
Well it fits to the anal-retentive mentality of Germany 😆 We all know they are great when it comes to denunciation.
Sounds like smth Stasi came up with 🤦🏼♂️
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
If I understand any german at all, then the law say, that the punishment for illegal gambling is a fine or up to 6 month in prison. So a minor offense like playing online poker would most likely only result in a fine, especially if its not for significant money. But even so if playing on unregulated offshore sites could in theory result in a criminal record, then I would definitely also stick to the regulated ones.
There is no need to run such a risk, when the industry leading sites like GG Poker and PokerStars as well as several alternatives are legal to play on. Lets say for instance that you are offered a job in an airport and need a security clearance, but you can not get that, because you have "gambled illegally" for $500 on some obscure site. What a bummer....
There is no need to run such a risk, when the industry leading sites like GG Poker and PokerStars as well as several alternatives are legal to play on. Lets say for instance that you are offered a job in an airport and need a security clearance, but you can not get that, because you have "gambled illegally" for $500 on some obscure site. What a bummer....
primrose
Visionary
Bronze Level
Even putting aside that you can use a VPN for phenom poker and reduce the risk to 0, I'd personally just play until the first player gets punished. If and when that happens (probably never) you can reevaluate.
Meta level advice, this is the kind of thing that LLMs will be good at. Like judging the practical risk of violating a law that's never enforced.
Phenom poker strikes me as one of the most honorable sites with a genuinely well thought out model, and I'd love to see it grow. Phenom 💕, GG 🤢
Meta level advice, this is the kind of thing that LLMs will be good at. Like judging the practical risk of violating a law that's never enforced.
Phenom poker strikes me as one of the most honorable sites with a genuinely well thought out model, and I'd love to see it grow. Phenom 💕, GG 🤢
primrose
Visionary
Bronze Level
6% rake on GGPoker begs to differ.
And I don't think there is real risk; just stop when the law starts getting enforced. You will not be the first person ever to be hit.
Goggelheimer
Legend
Platinum Level
That is the point.If I understand any german at all, then the law say, that the punishment for illegal gambling is a fine or up to 6 month in prison. So a minor offense like playing online poker would most likely only result in a fine, especially if its not for significant money. But even so if playing on unregulated offshore sites could in theory result in a criminal record, then I would definitely also stick to the regulated ones.
There is no need to run such a risk, when the industry leading sites like GG Poker and PokerStars as well as several alternatives are legal to play on. Lets say for instance that you are offered a job in an airport and need a security clearance, but you can not get that, because you have "gambled illegally" for $500 on some obscure site. What a bummer....
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
On PokerStars the rake is only 5% for regular tables, and as I understand it, PokerStars pay the tax on behalf of its german players.
primrose
Visionary
Bronze Level
Which is high, and PokerStars has completely gutted the rakeback program for German players. And the field is tougher. When I played online, I decided that GGPoker is altogether the better of the two, and GG is shit. So yeah, there is a reason to look for something else.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
No rakeback is clearly a bummer, and while 10NL on PokerStars is pretty soft, it might be difficult to beat anything higher than this without rakeback. The german legislation does seem to be pretty tough though. On ACR Poker there are still a few people playing from Australia, even though that country was on the "forbidden" list much longer than Germany, but I have never seen a player from Germany.
So seems like german players were actively kicked out, while for other countries they just stopped new players from entering. So ACR Poker at least seem to fear the german law, and of course one also has to worry about getting money out from the sites. Like maybe you can get away with playing there, but if you potentially have problems, as soon as winnings show up in your german bank account, its probably not worth it
primrose
Visionary
Bronze Level
Yeah ACR used to by my favorite site for sit and gos, and I think Cash was good there as well. Then one day comes an email that they're withdrawing from Germany.No rakeback is clearly a bummer, and while 10NL on PokerStars is pretty soft, it might be difficult to beat anything higher than this without rakeback. The german legislation does seem to be pretty tough though. On ACR Poker there are still a few people playing from Australia, even though that country was on the "forbidden" list much longer than Germany, but I have never seen a player from Germany.
So seems like german players were actively kicked out, while for other countries they just stopped new players from entering. So ACR Poker at least seem to fear the german law, and of course one also has to worry about getting money out from the sites. Like maybe you can get away with playing there, but if you potentially have problems, as soon as winnings show up in your german bank account, its probably not worth it
Idk what logic says that online poker must be regulated into the ground while live poker for 50x the amounts is totally fine, but that's where we are.