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Message: [QUOTE="quick, post: 4500603, member: 133269"] So after a lot of hard work, study, feedback here, and 10s of thousands of hands over on Bovada, I can finally say I'm a winning player at 5NL and 10NL FR NLH which felt great. That said, i decided to check out BetOnline because I've heard it's a decent site and super soft. Made a small test deposit (with the idea of depositing enough for 20bis for the lowest cash game stake if I liked the software). First thing I noticed was how massive the average pot sizes were in relation to the max stack buy ins (i.e seeing average pot sizes of $4+ in 10NL!) and noticed there was a ton of players just overbetting and shoving everything from bottom pair bottom kicker to gutshot draws, I thought, man this is going to be easy here. Played a few days, ran good, hands held, players were truly terribad fish. So I deposited more to have the roll I discussed above, and immediately started losing. Over and over. And over. And sure some of it was standard like going to far with TPTK or hitting 2 pair but being shown a flush on the turn. But some of it was really bizzare. Players aggro betting hands like57 suited (with one of their suit on the board and no pairs) and shoving flops to catch runner runner flushes. Players shoving A high into my flopped flushes to hit runner runner boats, players calling with 69o into pot sized bets with my flopped sets to hit a gutshot on river. Just lots of weird shoving with a wing and a prayer and them hitting over and over. That's not to say I haven't had good sessions there, I easily grow stacks at each table but then it seems, without fail, someone will shove with nothing and get their perfect run out. Over and over. And on the flip side I'll call min bets with 15 outers on the flop and just whiff over and over! I'm just getting sucked out on so much and it's often against a player that's the aggressor in the hand it's just mind boggling. So obviously this is magical thinking to assume that the site is somehow doing this on purpose, and I'm not implying they are. Poker can be cruel. My questions after this mini vent above, has anyone here actually consistently grown or maintained a roll at BetOnline? My roll is down to 5 buy ins after about 3 days of this, so I'm down 15 buy ins at the lowest stake. Compared to Bovada once i actually put in the work and play solid poker with solid BRM, I still lose a few buy ins here and there, but not like on Bet Online. And if it is an honest site and the players are just terrible, any tips on how to beat these kind of any two card shovefest players? Should I be overbetting the pots when there's draws and really charging even more for draws? Or is it just a site where you need a really deep bankroll to sustain the absolute manic play I've seen there? About to close my BetOnline account because I can do fine at Bovada but really struggling on there and I'm hesitant to set up a deeper roll there if no one else is actually consistently having success there, is it worth staying on BetOnline and if so how can I crush these players? [B]TL;DR: BetOnline 10NL FR, is it actually beatable? Have you consistently won there and is it worth the time? If so, how deep is your roll and any tips on how to counter the shove fests? [/B] [/QUOTE]

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