2022 US Poker Open - Did Phil Hellmuth play the worst hand ever?

[Shells]

Over the past week, there has been a tremendous amount of discussion with a hand between Phil Hellmuth and Alex Foxen. Amanda Botfeld gives us a little insight through the eyes of poker analyst Mike Schmostle. Check out the analysis provided by Mike and the article outlining the hand.

So, put yourself in Phil's position for this hand. Would you have played the hand the same as Phil?


Insight: Why Phil Hellmuth’s Q4o Play Was Actually Brilliant

 

[Shells]

In case some of you haven't seen the hand play out, here's a video.

 

[ciudadelanorte]

he is always crying about this and now he is doing the same

 

[Tigroslav]

This play is like having a feeling on 72o and calling a big all in.
It can work but its not good poker.

 

[ScooperNova]

I have really gotten a kick out of all the talk online I've seen about this. I love this tweet from Phil. Stuff is hilarious.
phil_hellmuth on Twitter: "Official announcement: after a lot of debate, reflection, and careful study, I have decided to add Q-4 off suit to my list of “Top Ten Hands.” AA, KK, QQ, AK, JJ, 10-10, AQ, 9-9, 8-8 and Q-4: I dropped 7-7. Also, @KevinRobMartin has a chart that reflects the current value of Q-4 https://t.co/ntx4WISKb8" / Twitter

I'd like to add I played a small tourney the other night and played Q4 three times in big pots. Twice I made big bluff and showed. The other time I hit a flush and won a a huge pot. Every time I typed "white magic" in the chat but I don't think anyone knew what I was talking about LOL.

 

[Shells]

What do you all think about the opinion in the article linked?

Insight: Why Phil Hellmuth’s Q4o Play Was Actually Brilliant

 

[Tigroslav]

What do you all think about the opinion in the article linked?

Insight: Why Phil Hellmuth’s Q4o Play Was Actually Brilliant

I think it must be a sarcastic april fools joke.

 

[ScooperNova]

What do you all think about the opinion in the article linked?

Insight: Why Phil Hellmuth’s Q4o Play Was Actually Brilliant

I think the part about the guy getting reads from staring at his own crotch has inspired me. Lol. That was exactly the type of engaging stuff I've been entertained by regarding this story. I saw the chart that was in the tweet I linked was also in the article. All good stuff

 

[scottychase]

Phil Hellmuth infamous Q4o! Could it be a publicity stunt?

So I was just brain storming and I ran into a very interesting concept! I was asking myself why would a poker pro like Phil Hellmuth play such a trash hand, then gets rewarded for it and also it went viral over social media. I came up with this very interesting conclusion! With all the poker coaching and training in the times we live in it's very difficult to make money playing poker these days. Now seeing a 16 wsop bracelet player plays a hand like Q4o and takes down a huge pot live at the US poker Open will make the new and upcoming players want to make that same move or similar moves. So what that does is it makes the poker community softer by having these player who think it's ok to play like Phil. And what that does is it make poker as a whole more profitable and attractive! This is just something that ran across my mind but could it be the reality behind the infamous Q4o of Phil Hellmuth? Please feel free to share your views on this!

 

[Daen27]

Doyle also played with 10.2, but he was lucky that no one paid, Phil wanted the same here, but everything turned out differently)

 

[scottychase]

Doyle also played with 10.2, but he was lucky that no one paid, Phil wanted the same here, but everything turned out differently)

Can you please explain a little more? I can't really understand what you're saying!

 

[Shells]

So I was just brain storming and I ran into a very interesting concept! I was asking myself why would a poker pro like Phil Hellmuth play such a trash hand, then gets rewarded for it and also it went viral over social media. I came up with this very interesting conclusion! With all the poker coaching and training in the times we live in it's very difficult to make money playing poker these days. Now seeing a 16 WSOP bracelet player plays a hand like Q4o and takes down a huge pot live at the US Poker Open will make the new and upcoming players want to make that same move or similar moves. So what that does is it makes the poker community softer by having these player who think it's ok to play like Phil. And what that does is it make poker as a whole more profitable and attractive! This is just something that ran across my mind but could it be the reality behind the infamous Q4o of Phil Hellmuth? Please feel free to share your views on this!

Take a look at the analysis in the link within the first post. Do you have any thoughts on the analysis?

 

[scottychase]

Take a look at the analysis in the link within the first post. Do you have any thoughts on the analysis?

Well I will say that from looking at the charts Q4o is not as bad as I thought it was. It does have some value! However I'm not sure if I could convince me self enough to make that play if I was placed in that position.

 

[scottychase]

he is always crying about this and now he is doing the same

Facts!

 

[scottychase]

I have really gotten a kick out of all the talk online I've seen about this. I love this tweet from Phil. Stuff is hilarious.
phil_hellmuth on Twitter: "Official announcement: after a lot of debate, reflection, and careful study, I have decided to add Q-4 off suit to my list of “Top Ten Hands.” AA, KK, QQ, AK, JJ, 10-10, AQ, 9-9, 8-8 and Q-4: I dropped 7-7. Also, @KevinRobMartin has a chart that reflects the current value of Q-4 https://t.co/ntx4WISKb8" / Twitter

I'd like to add I played a small tourney the other night and played Q4 three times in big pots. Twice I made big bluff and showed. The other time I hit a flush and won a a huge pot. Every time I typed "white magic" in the chat but I don't think anyone knew what I was talking about LOL.

Trying to imitate the pro! Same thing I was talking about on my post from the other day!

 

[pocketace222]

Lol it worked out for him but I just think it's a terrible play. Like they say in the video what if the rolls were reversed he'd flip out and never shut up. He had to know he was behind and still raised. All the power to him he's a legend and a great player but he needs to shut up when he gets beat but then again that's his gimmick!!!!

 

[SpanRmonka]

Take a look at the analysis in the link within the first post. Do you have any thoughts on the analysis?

I fully agree with the analysis. In poker you have to find those small margins here and there to be successful. Q4 as opposed to the 'pure junk' Q3 is exactly that.....its the very definition of the edge we crave as poker players. Its the exception that proves the rule!!!

I think Phil clearly put him on pocket 33's. In which case this all he needs to make a totally equitable call, and also justify not playing pure junk Q3 in this same spot.

He was wrong of course, but since when has Helmuth ever let that kind of minor detail bother him.