Thinking behind calling or folding

[SteveAsh7]

When you have a flush and there's the chance that there is a full house that can beat you and you're at the river staring at an all-in situation, what goes through your mind on whether your opponent has it or not? Especially if they raised pre-flop, raised and called everything all the way to the river, and are looking super strong. Now i know that the odds of them having the house is low but sometimes they have it. Just wondered if anyone has ways they can find out with tells. Especially I'm talking about online when you can't see the players face to face.

 

[hugoacekin]

I think a professional would give up, but since I'm not a professional and I have an ace flush, I would always call.

 

[SteveAsh7]

I think a professional would give up, but since I'm not a professional and I have an ace flush, I would always call.

Even if You've been playing with the player for a while, you can't work out their range as they've been playing with 6/5, 8/9 as well as the royal cards and they have been calling/raising the whole way and it's a big pot. I would probably call too tbh but it's a tricky one for sure.

 

[Kenzie 96]

Having the nut flush would certainly be a factor, notes on your opponent & how he has bet the hand, attempting to control the pot size & your opponents response, as you say tough decision, fold & continue with reduced chip stack or pay for information & risk elimination.

 

[rastapapolos]

Well there are a bunch of factors to consider. Villain position (UTG, MP, CO...etc), Villain range, table dynamics, Villain profile, the odds to call...etc You can't know for sure if villain has a full house, the odds of flopping a set is 9to1, so the chances that you are facing one are pretty slim. You have to consider the board texture and his range, may be he got the second flush, a trip, a bluff... In general calling a jam with the nuts flush on a paired board is EV+

 

[SteveAsh7]

Well there are a bunch of factors to consider. Villain position (UTG, MP, CO...etc), Villain range, table dynamics, Villain profile, the odds to call...etc You can't know for sure if villain has a full house, the odds of flopping a set is 9to1, so the chances that you are facing one are pretty slim. You have to consider the board texture and his range, may be he got the second flush, a trip, a bluff... In general calling a jam with the nuts flush on a paired board is EV+

Thanks for the insight i will bare that in mind when i have the nuts flush next time

 

[Risto234]

When you have a flush and there's the chance that there is a full house that can beat you and you're at the river staring at an all-in situation, what goes through your mind on whether your opponent has it or not? Especially if they raised pre-flop, raised and called everything all the way to the river, and are looking super strong. Now i know that the odds of them having the house is low but sometimes they have it. Just wondered if anyone has ways they can find out with tells. Especially I'm talking about online when you can't see the players face to face.

I pretty much try to NOT think whatever opponent(s) may (or may not) have - it is probably much better to turn your cards into good use. And should it fail then it's still okay since i atleast tried

 

[akmost]

Very nice question! I mean the vast majority doesn't think so much.We don't play only our combinations but our opponent's too.

What I do? I take my time and listing all the preflop / post flop actions . River decisions are usually the hardest for me. Have in mind that if the player is unknown to you he has no incentive to bluff you , pure value is what he is seeking. If we have history or dynamics with a specific opponent then yes we can try some fancy plays in order to be balanced blah blah blah.
I play micro , low stakes and 90% of the times they play straight forward , poker is simple as that in those stakes so don't bother with hero calls etc.

 

[ADRI7HO]

According to my experience, in this case (regardless of the opponent's previous game) in many cases there will be a full (in low-stakes games, tournament poker), but the opponent will have a flush in a similar proportion (either he imitates a full or he thinks that the flush he has is strong enough I do not know that).
A small percentage of the all-in will be a bluff at this time, and I have already realized that it is not worth calling at this time in the long run.

 

[SteveAsh7]

Very nice question! I mean the vast majority doesn't think so much.We don't play only our combinations but our opponent's too.

What I do? I take my time and listing all the preflop / post flop actions . River decisions are usually the hardest for me. Have in mind that if the player is unknown to you he has no incentive to bluff you , pure value is what he is seeking. If we have history or dynamics with a specific opponent then yes we can try some fancy plays in order to be balanced blah blah blah.
I play micro , low stakes and 90% of the times they play straight forward , poker is simple as that in those stakes so don't bother with hero calls etc.

I didn't know low stakes they play simple. So by that you mean more often than not they're never bluffing?

 

[akmost]

I didn't know low stakes they play simple. So by that you mean more often than not they're never bluffing?

Never say never but based on my ''experience'' so far , against unknown players, their bets are value heavy. I mean if you get checked raised on the flop this probably means 2 pairs or better. If you have history against a specific opponent then he may have some bluffs for balancing purposes.
And the 3 bets, they rarely 3bet bluff for bluff( especially in early stages).

 

[SteveAsh7]

Never say never but based on my ''experience'' so far , against unknown players, their bets are value heavy. I mean if you get checked raised on the flop this probably means 2 pairs or better. If you have history against a specific opponent then he may have some bluffs for balancing purposes.
And the 3 bets, they rarely 3bet bluff for bluff( especially in early stages).

Oh i thought you mean bluffing on the river not pre-flop or post flop. Yeah I've noticed nearly all the players I've played against don't tend to bluff at all pre-flop. You see the pro's do it but online it's hard to pull it off as there's always someone willing to call a 3 bet with either a great hand (Not monster hand) so J/10 for instance, and even call with numbers suited like 6/5 Diamonds or 8/9 Spades. If that's what you're referring to as simple on pokerstars that's all I've really seen tbh.

 

[Gallarado777]

When you have a flush and there's the chance that there is a full house that can beat you and you're at the river staring at an all-in situation, what goes through your mind on whether your opponent has it or not? Especially if they raised pre-flop, raised and called everything all the way to the river, and are looking super strong. Now i know that the odds of them having the house is low but sometimes they have it. Just wondered if anyone has ways they can find out with tells. Especially I'm talking about online when you can't see the players face to face.

I think you can notice this if you watched him earlier as a player to make up thoughts about him in advance and in such situations when you get into the same hand with him and think about your thoughts above that you indicated, then the conclusion will be very simple for calling or throwing cards there such a thing as notes about players directly in poker rooms they will help you with this question of yours write down notes about players in different situations how they behave in the game during the game and you will know their actions in the future they are not forbidden they are built into poker rooms good luck I think you now know the answer to your question

 

[SteveAsh7]

I think you can notice this if you watched him earlier as a player to make up thoughts about him in advance and in such situations when you get into the same hand with him and think about your thoughts above that you indicated, then the conclusion will be very simple for calling or throwing cards there such a thing as notes about players directly in poker rooms they will help you with this question of yours write down notes about players in different situations how they behave in the game during the game and you will know their actions in the future they are not forbidden they are built into poker rooms good luck I think you now know the answer to your question

This is only half of the question answered as what do you say when you're at a cash game and players come and go as they please. Notes mean nothing then, plus tournaments are worse, they always move you to another table randomly or new people come to your table. Not on about late registration players although that too, but a chip leader could be moved to your table.

 

[Gallarado777]

This is only half of the question answered as what do you say when you're at a cash game and players come and go as they please. Notes mean nothing then, plus tournaments are worse, they always move you to another table randomly or new people come to your table. Not on about late registration players although that too, but a chip leader could be moved to your table.

you need to choose your poker game structure

 

[SteveAsh7]

you need to choose your poker game structure

Yes of course.

I do agree with you btw, about taking notes on players. I was just pointing out that it's not always possible all the time.

 

[hilary antonik filho]

unfortunately we are not born with powers and also without a crystal ball to know or see the opponents' cards, a difficult decision, 51% would pay to see it, 49% would give up, curiosity affects me

 

[Gallarado777]

Yes of course.

I do agree with you btw, about taking notes on players. I was just pointing out that it's not always possible all the time.

yes, many simply don’t use them, but you should already get used to it, it’s like a notepad at hand, why not use it

 

[SteveAsh7]

unfortunately we are not born with powers and also without a crystal ball to know or see the opponents' cards, a difficult decision, 51% would pay to see it, 49% would give up, curiosity affects me

This is true, but this is where the maths comes into it i guess.

 

[spunka]

When you have a flush and there's the chance that there is a full house that can beat you and you're at the river staring at an all-in situation, what goes through your mind on whether your opponent has it or not? Especially if they raised pre-flop, raised and called everything all the way to the river, and are looking super strong. Now i know that the odds of them having the house is low but sometimes they have it. Just wondered if anyone has ways they can find out with tells. Especially I'm talking about online when you can't see the players face to face.

Yep they will have it sometimes, so you are in a guessing game and sometimes you guess wrong, you have to look at the card flow, Flop what is on the board and is the FH there now ? or does it comes on turn or river and villans suddenly change bet siezing. If you control the pot will villan overtake control, is it for all your chips or is it for all his chips ? in tournament players seldom riks their life, with a huge bluff when the have above avg stack against another high stack. Are you willing to risk your life in the tournament ? There is a lot to take into consideration. So a you rightfull say sometimes they have it ......

 

[zipocool]

here you need to look at the situation and what kind of statistics or notes we have for this player, a lot will depend on the size of our stack and the opponent's stack and what is the size of the bank on the river, there are a lot of nuances, of course, if the board looks like QQKK7 on the river, then here our flush folds very easily than on the 2257J board

 

[SteveAsh7]

Yep they will have it sometimes, so you are in a guessing game and sometimes you guess wrong, you have to look at the card flow, Flop what is on the board and is the FH there now ? or does it comes on turn or river and villans suddenly change bet siezing. If you control the pot will villan overtake control, is it for all your chips or is it for all his chips ? in tournament players seldom riks their life, with a huge bluff when the have above avg stack against another high stack. Are you willing to risk your life in the tournament ? There is a lot to take into consideration. So a you rightfull say sometimes they have it ......

This is a really good breakdown of the situation and probably the best one so far!! All what you have said needs to be taken into consideration. Good job

 

[akmost]

Oh i thought you mean bluffing on the river not pre-flop or post flop. Yeah I've noticed nearly all the players I've played against don't tend to bluff at all pre-flop. You see the pro's do it but online it's hard to pull it off as there's always someone willing to call a 3 bet with either a great hand (Not monster hand) so J/10 for instance, and even call with numbers suited like 6/5 Diamonds or 8/9 Spades. If that's what you're referring to as simple on Pokerstars that's all I've really seen tbh.

No , I wrote generally about the stakes I play against unknown opponents.

Bluffs on the river exist but again we should know the opponent and as I have already mentioned most of the times they will have it.
The most underbluffed move I have encountered so far is the check raised by my opponent on the river , they never bluff that , even if they click back raised.
If you have a HUD for 100+ hands for your opponent you may be able to identify some bluff tendencies like the lead bet on the river etc but generally keep your decisions simple.

 

[Baldy86]

it depends . if he reraises you on the river then he most likely has it . but if you played your flush passively and he bets on the turn or river then it depends on your read on him . i personally can often read people well . often it is not even because of analysing the betting pattern only but also my instincts telling me that something is wrong so i made many good calls and caught people bluffing lol

you have to try and put yourself in the head of your opponent lol

 

[Gritz18]

When you have a flush and there's the chance that there is a full house that can beat you and you're at the river staring at an all-in situation, what goes through your mind on whether your opponent has it or not? Especially if they raised pre-flop, raised and called everything all the way to the river, and are looking super strong. Now i know that the odds of them having the house is low but sometimes they have it. Just wondered if anyone has ways they can find out with tells. Especially I'm talking about online when you can't see the players face to face.

There is a chance that I will fold a hand like that, there is, but first I have to analyze how the story was told, if I have any notes from the villain.
When I don't have any information about the villain I'll be tempted to call.
But in freeroll tournaments if such a hand happens, the vast majority of players will call.