Study books or hire a coach?

M

MrUnlikely

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I have been a losing player for most of my life. In total, I estimate I have lost about $20000. Perhaps about $5000 in live casinos in total and $15000 online.

I now feel that I am on the cusp of being good enough to earn more playing poker than I can at work. There are some things I need to change, but basically, if I get $100 in my account, I will usually run it up to about $300. Typically it goes down after that because I play for too long, lose focus, start calling 3-bets that I shouldn't call, and start forgetting about position.

A week ago I deposited $100. I ran it up to $350, and then the next day threw some of it away. Then with $30 left yesterday, I ran it back up to $350 mainly playing $25 zoom before I decided to take a shot at 1/2 and hit a bot of a heater (flopped quads vs turned set, turned set of Aces vs flopped set) and got to $470. In my account this morning I had a nice $730. Often, I more or less break even after tens of thousands of hands and paying something like $500-$1000 in rake. (full disclosure, I did lose $150 of that this evening-a bit drunk)

I believe that if I just slightly improve my game by a few percentage points, and I get to a rewards tier that gives me 50% cashback rather than my current 20%, then I could comfortably make a living from $25NL ZOOM/RUSH AND CASH, and could probably do the same in $50NL. I am not sure about 100NL. Although I crushed last night, I recognize a heater when i see one.

Because I have not had any coaching, I feel that I could benefit enormously from just a few simple tips. The reason I think this is once on leakbuster or something like that, I saw that my Small Blind was my worst losing position and it was a horrendous figure. I looked into it and realized I should play less hands and raise more often from the SB. As soon as I did this I started winning from the small blind. I thought, if such a simple piece of advice can save me hundreds of dollars a month, what else might there be that I can easily fix.

I have fundamentals of no limt hold`em, which seems good but I tend not to do much study. I will continue to read it.

I feel like I should get a coach and see how it goes. But what can I expect? Do we review hands or play live. I think even the process of reviewing hands would improve my winrate because I would be less inclined to do stupid things if I had to reflect on them with someone later. I saw some coaches for $50- is that going to be helpful? Is the value for a $50 coach much less than a $150 coach?

Part of me thinks that being staked in some way would be great. Perhaps I could get coaching lessons in exchange for percentage of my wins? So, no money needs to be paid by the coach. Is this something a coach would do? I guess they would jump at the chance if they thought I was a winning player. Because while making them money as a winning player, they are helping me to improve and make even more money for us. I guess 5% -10% of any winning session would be good payment. Whilst I don't think I need an investor, it would be nice to have someone on board with me. Coaches would be super helpful, but also knowing I have someone that I respect and who is helping me to improve and depending on me to show them some return on their investment in me would also help me to play my best.

One thing which I definitely need to improve upon is 3-betting because I only do it occasionally. My stats say 3 percent.

Any recommendations? What do you think I should do from here out?
 
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H

Hermus

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I'm just going to answer the only question in this post at face value. Yes there are coaching for profit schemes in poker offered by a couple of different organisations. Just a google search away in fact. None that I know of stake students though.
 
TeUnit

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Books are typically cheaper than coaches, but coaches can often see your problems where with a book you need to figure out what you are doing wrong. Another thing you can do that is free is post hands and let others critique them.

I used to send my tourney hand histories to a couple of my coaches and they would review my play and tell me where they would make different plays.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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I'd recommend you read some of Tommy Angelo's books and really take it to heart.
 
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LetterRip

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basically, if I get $100 in my account, I will usually run it up to about $300. Typically it goes down after that because I play for too long, lose focus, start calling 3-bets that I shouldn't call, and start forgetting about position.

Analyzing 'how good' you are, includes how disciplined you are. If discipline is a problem - you could try books on the mental game of poker and tilt. A coach won't really provide any benefit for mental game stuff.

You could try,

The Mental Game of Poker
The Mental Game of Poker 2

If you have huge mental leaks where you lose two buyins, then you need to address those before you address other aspects of your game where a coach might be of benefit.

Most video training sites will also have a series of lectures on the mental game of poker and tilt.
 
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fletchdad

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Since you are investing money in poker, I would try a coach. There are many coaching sites and you can lurk around and see if you feel it is a place for you. I have had multiple coaches. Some were great and some I could hear them clicking around on their keyboard while the session was going on, meaning they are doing something else on the time I am paying for, so that sucked.

Reviews of coaches and asking on forums like this one will also probably be beneficial. If you have a coach in mind, see what others think of him/her.

Books are always great. Taking part in challenges and HH discussion as well. Off-table review a must but you know that. Mental game of poker, as mentioned, a great book.

There are sites that coach you and you don't pay but give a % of your winnings, but I don't know who does that these days.

Good luck in any case.
 
Alexey Shley

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It will definitely be better with a coach. First, the coach will show you all your weaknesses in poker. In books, everything is not always clear, you have to spend more time understanding the book. The coach is more expensive, but the time spent is much less.
 
TirariAchref

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I think you need to watch live tournament in poker. Like pokerstars's final table in YouTube you will learn so much from them more then you read or coach.
 
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TaigaMaster

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if there is an opportunity to hire a personal trainer, this is the best option, to devote more time to poker theory
 
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tourpro99

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I found the best results, in golf and poker, from books...could always re-read etc etc. Funny thing is I am a coach now...using my knowledge learned from books to help others. To each his own!
 
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easy play

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Books are cheap. Try them first and see if it improves your game.
If it doesn't help, try video courses by some coaches.
Private coaching can be expensive, but it's more focused on fixing leaks.
 
partz

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I would say practice. But those two definitely can improve the game to anyone new to poker or someone that wants to up their game
 
venycyos

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In my opinion it depends on the level of knowledge. I believe we get more out of the coach at the beginning and in the advanced and more in the middle.
 
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I think it depends of how much money do you want to invest in this, because good coaches are expensive, but in my opinion it's a better option than books in your case. On the other hand, even the most expensive poker book doesn't cost much money.
 
ChubbySin

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Depending on how much money you have and the stakes you will play, buying books will be cheaper and more profitable than hire a coach, however the time is the question, how long do you want to take to achieve the results? Short time? Coach´s alternative seens better to these cases.
 
Bnobob

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Th big gamee

your experience with $20,000 spent should qualify you to be a poker pro.
 
coolDadJimbo

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i would suggest a few things:

- if your BR is $100, you should only be playing 5nl. a BR is a certain size to adjust for variance. playing 25nl with $100 isn't sustainable. BR mgmnt is key. also move up with your BR. beat each level first.
- don't play zoom
- don't drink when you're playing.
- find one game and buyin that you feel the best at and stick to it
- keep all distractions to a minimum so you're only focusing on poker. i listen to brainwave music on youtube. they have tonnes of options and they're like 8 hours long. set the timer on your phone so that you take regualr breaks.
- print up the hand range charts for each position and keep them in front of you. stick to these!!! keep them there until you feel you don't need to look.
- make flash cards on hud stats so you get good at qucik decision making. colour code the ranges for each stat.
- i think i study/play abut 50:50. i have about 8 paper books, 12 pdfs and watch youtube content by guys like evan jarvis, alex fitzgerald, nathan williams, james sweeney, john little.... these guys are good for lower stakes and are great teachers.
- i also listen to a podcast called Poker Mind Coach which is really good for the mental game. they're about 30-40 minutes (on youtube) and good to listen to in the car. the mental strength philosophies are applicable to all aspects of life and i really enjoy them. they interview everyone.

i hope this helps and wish you the best of luck. i'm no pro, but i am a winning player at 5nl/10nl. it is a grind for sure. right now i make about $1.5 to $2/hr playing 6 - 8 tables at 5nl. definatley not rich lol. my goal is to move up again next year and get up to 25nl and make ~$5+/hr. but this will take a lot of hard work both studying and grinding.

best of luck bud
 
skavenger

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I have been a losing player for most of my life. In total, I estimate I have lost about $20000. Perhaps about $5000 in live casinos in total and $15000 online.

I now feel that I am on the cusp of being good enough to earn more playing poker than I can at work. There are some things I need to change, but basically, if I get $100 in my account, I will usually run it up to about $300. Typically it goes down after that because I play for too long, lose focus, start calling 3-bets that I shouldn't call, and start forgetting about position.

A week ago I deposited $100. I ran it up to $350, and then the next day threw some of it away. Then with $30 left yesterday, I ran it back up to $350 mainly playing $25 zoom before I decided to take a shot at 1/2 and hit a bot of a heater (flopped quads vs turned set, turned set of Aces vs flopped set) and got to $470. In my account this morning I had a nice $730. Often, I more or less break even after tens of thousands of hands and paying something like $500-$1000 in rake. (full disclosure, I did lose $150 of that this evening-a bit drunk)

I believe that if I just slightly improve my game by a few percentage points, and I get to a rewards tier that gives me 50% cashback rather than my current 20%, then I could comfortably make a living from $25NL ZOOM/RUSH AND CASH, and could probably do the same in $50NL. I am not sure about 100NL. Although I crushed last night, I recognize a heater when i see one.

Because I have not had any coaching, I feel that I could benefit enormously from just a few simple tips. The reason I think this is once on leakbuster or something like that, I saw that my Small Blind was my worst losing position and it was a horrendous figure. I looked into it and realized I should play less hands and raise more often from the SB. As soon as I did this I started winning from the small blind. I thought, if such a simple piece of advice can save me hundreds of dollars a month, what else might there be that I can easily fix.

I have fundamentals of no limt hold`em, which seems good but I tend not to do much study. I will continue to read it.

I feel like I should get a coach and see how it goes. But what can I expect? Do we review hands or play live. I think even the process of reviewing hands would improve my winrate because I would be less inclined to do stupid things if I had to reflect on them with someone later. I saw some coaches for $50- is that going to be helpful? Is the value for a $50 coach much less than a $150 coach?

Part of me thinks that being staked in some way would be great. Perhaps I could get coaching lessons in exchange for percentage of my wins? So, no money needs to be paid by the coach. Is this something a coach would do? I guess they would jump at the chance if they thought I was a winning player. Because while making them money as a winning player, they are helping me to improve and make even more money for us. I guess 5% -10% of any winning session would be good payment. Whilst I don't think I need an investor, it would be nice to have someone on board with me. Coaches would be super helpful, but also knowing I have someone that I respect and who is helping me to improve and depending on me to show them some return on their investment in me would also help me to play my best.

One thing which I definitely need to improve upon is 3-betting because I only do it occasionally. My stats say 3 percent.

Any recommendations? What do you think I should do from here out?


maybe you should start at low levels... reading doesn't help much in the game... but u get some hints.
 
Zapahlohotrona

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It is better to hire a coach who will study the base, find the main mistakes and give advice. This will be more concentrated information than reading an endless number of books. The advantage of the trainer is that they will analyze your mistakes of thinking here and now.
 
terryk

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You have to learn to think "outside the box",,,,doing what everyone else is doing will only lead to loss,,, :D
 
frank174

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A coach is the best way to go,online they can sit right beside you while you play and can talk about why or why not you make certain plays,it is how I really started to understand the game, I find it easier to cut right to the heart of things ,you can only take so much from a book, I find it easier to talk thru all the different situations ,also its a lot of fun picking the brains of other good players ,I did this all the time with goathead147 ,he actually told me about CC said you need to check out this site and the rest is history,now if he would follow his own advice and start posting,coach isn't someone you have to pay,they need to be someone you can trust and has knowledge
 
Luvepoker

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First thing I was thinking after reading your post is you have a issue you need to take care of. Do you need a coach for this maybe. I think you need to work on your mindset. I played too long, lose focus, start calling 3-bets that I shouldn't call, and start forgetting about position and I did lose $150 of that this evening-a bit drunk . These are huge leaks you need to take care of. Also you need better bankroll management.


You may think your ready and you might just be ready but if you clean up the mental game a lot of these leaks will be smaller and less costly. SO what would be better? A coach or just reading books. It depends of the type of person you are. I did use a mind set coach for personal reasons and then for poker. 1st of all what helped for my life perspective was huge and what followed working into poker was even huger. When you can get to point when you take a horrible bad beat in a tournament series and I mean truly sick ending, My reaction was to tap the table and wish everyone good luck and walk away, I turned around as I forgot my drink and every player is looking at me expecting the explosion...... To be able to just walk back grab the drink and say good luck again to all those peoples amazement..................... This is when you know you are in control of your tilt and so much more.

Im not sure we are allowed to say who we use on the forum but if interested please message me and I will tell you know I used.
 
Luvart

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Hiring a good coach is the best, fastest and most reliable way to finally stop being a losing poker player.

But you need to search a lot about it.

Your coach must have proven results. Of course it depends also on how much money you are willing to invest on a coach.
 
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