Donk betting

[nasty bent gorilla]

Does anybody incorporate a donk betting strategy, can it be part of balanced play, or is it purely exploitative against certain players?

When I have done it, It seems to be a red rag to a bull, should you only do it when you're strong?

Deeper the effective stacks the more viable it is?

 

[puzzlefish]

You need to create a table image if it's going to be useful to you. Donk betting is usually used by weak players to bet weak hands for protection. If you establish this image and lose some hands all the way to the showdown like this, then maybe players will start to raise your donk bets. However, most of the time it doesn't work.

 

[fundiver199]

Donk betting simple mean to lead into the previous street aggressor. So it can be done on the flop, turn and river, but only if there were a bet or raise by a player with position on you. Its also sometimes called "playing out of flow", because most of the time we naturally check to the player, who signaled strength on the previous street.

And yes donk betting can absolutely be done in a balanced way. Solvers use it quite a bit, and they are always balanced. The situations, where donk betting is GTO strategy, is typically, when the flop or the next card is better for the defending players range. But of course if donk bets tend to get raised a lot in your games, then just do it for value and print money, when you have the goods.

 

[German629]

Hello, Eveybody! I can to say only one by this topic: I often do donk bet, if I have a stack more, than my opponents...
But only, if I remained one against one with another player, and not in multi-way pot...

 

[f_lampa]

it is quite fun to drive your opponent crazy with such a bet

 

[makisaa]

Betting should be done depending the situation. There is no need for exaggerations who can lead to sliding of the stack. Of course there are always the useful chip donators!

 

[dreamer13]

Donk betting does not allow us to get information about our opponent's range. If instead of donk betting we check, then the preflop aggressor will either bet or check back, thus providing us with information about his hand.

 

[nasty bent gorilla]

Donk betting simple mean to lead into the previous street aggressor. So it can be done on the flop, turn and river, but only if there were a bet or raise by a player with position on you. Its also sometimes called "playing out of flow", because most of the time we naturally check to the player, who signaled strength on the previous street.

And yes donk betting can absolutely be done in a balanced way. Solvers use it quite a bit, and they are always balanced. The situations, where donk betting is GTO strategy, is typically, when the flop or the next card is better for the defending players range. But of course if donk bets tend to get raised a lot in your games, then just do it for value and print money, when you have the goods.

Thanks, interesting. Do solvers tend, specifically for these flop scenarios, to favour check raises over donk bets? What factors beyond pre flop ranges influence this? Presumably a solver's advice is, irrespective of a generic villains flop strategy, it just means however they may respond, you can't be exploited in the long run?

My intuition is that deeper effective stacks allow more wiggle room for, non-exploitable, donking of flops, as the times you are raised, the pot will be bloated at the point at which they made the last aggressive move; with check raising the opposite.

Admittedly, I have no idea what I'm talking about, as I've never used a solver.

 

[nasty bent gorilla]

it is quite fun to drive your opponent crazy with such a bet

That's initially why I started doing it, for the lulz

 

[nasty bent gorilla]

Donk betting does not allow us to get information about our opponent's range. If instead of donk betting we check, then the preflop aggressor will either bet or check back, thus providing us with information about his hand.

Makes sense. Thanks

 

[Aballinamion]

Does anybody incorporate a donk betting strategy, can it be part of balanced play, or is it purely exploitative against certain players?

When I have done it, It seems to be a red rag to a bull, should you only do it when you're strong?

Deeper the effective stacks the more viable it is?

Actually there’s nothing “donk” about the donk-bet, it’s weird because we are OOP and inflating the pot. Theoretically, we should be checking range to the aggressor more often than donking.
This is a hard strategy to use, because if we are bluffing we aren’t the last to speak and when we get strong values and donks flop, we can make IP player simply fold.
Donkey bet is a strategy that should be used with caution, and not very often. For example, a mate of mine hates when people donks flop, and he always raises the donk bet; so what do I do? I expect to get a strong flop and then donk, knowing that he will raise and I will raise even more.
Donkey bet is totally dependent on our opponents.

 

[Gallarado777]

I think you should rarely do this against weak players or do it with a strong hand in other options, you can reach the showdown and lose you need to bring you to the showdown so that you do not reach the showdown then this plan works

 

[fundiver199]

Thanks, interesting. Do solvers tend, specifically for these flop scenarios, to favour check raises over donk bets? What factors beyond pre flop ranges influence this? Presumably a solver's advice is, irrespective of a generic villains flop strategy, it just means however they may respond, you can't be exploited in the long run?

My intuition is that deeper effective stacks allow more wiggle room for, non-exploitable, donking of flops, as the times you are raised, the pot will be bloated at the point at which they made the last aggressive move; with check raising the opposite.

Admittedly, I have no idea what I'm talking about, as I've never used a solver.

I am not that deep into the theory, so I am not the right person to answer these questions.

 

[RustyRed83]

I got into this with a forum member on the table about this very topic, i was accused of being rude and offensive for using the term "donk betting" I guess they missed the point. Anyway, it's certainly a theory i have been studying up on. Trying to add to my game as well as trying to understand why others are doing it. I think much of the articles i come across about the subject, is almost to never donk bet. You lose so much information, we leave our capped ranges vulnerable to over bets. And quite frankly, check raising is more profitable.

 

[Aballinamion]

Being candid, I don’t know how to use donkey bet a lot, for I barely use this resource. But I know one of two things on how to react to donkey bet, and thinking about it, I wrote a thread to talk about this subject:

How to react to donkey bet

How to react to donkey bet: Examples for 6-MAX Cash Tables a) Multi-way pot: We open AcKs from MP and we get called both from SB and BB: Flop: Th6d7c SB checks and BB donks flop: We must be very careful in flops like this when we are holding AJ+ and JJ+ Of course that in this same...

www.cardschat.com

I hope it helps!

 

[Station_Master]

I got into this with a forum member on the table about this very topic, i was accused of being rude and offensive for using the term "donk betting" I guess they missed the point. Anyway, it's certainly a theory i have been studying up on. Trying to add to my game as well as trying to understand why others are doing it. I think much of the articles i come across about the subject, is almost to never donk bet. You lose so much information, we leave our capped ranges vulnerable to over bets. And quite frankly, check raising is more profitable.

Dont talk strategy at the table it tends not to go down well!

As Fundiver has said main times you want to donk bet are when you have a range and/or nut advantage. E.g. you defend an early position open from BB and the board comes 765 rainbow. You have all the straights, sets and 2 pairs, while your opponent wont have many and lots of his range will have missed, so a good spot to lead (a.k.a donk bet). But it's rare the board will favour you this much so just having no donks on the flop is also fine.

 

[BelFish]

You can balance small donk bets on flops with possible draw hands by betting with very strong hands and with draws. If your opponent raises your bet, then you will fold your draw, losing not very many chips. And if they raise when you have a set or some other very strong hand, then it can be played differently depending on the opponent's stats. And if your opponents know that you can have a very strong hand, then they will give you very cheap to drag your draws - then your donk bets will essentially be block bets. And against aggressive players, it will be provocative bets.

 

[GNuTTz]

Interesting question… donk betting on occasion can be beneficial. Like most of the other feedback being provided here- it’s a balancing act combined with reading opponents tendencies and behaviours. Timing is key.

 

[yuriko oyama]

poker is something full of nuances, this move in my opinion, is only very effective if you have good information on the villain.
without this information it is impossible to have the slightest notion that this move will be good or not.

 

[Aballinamion]

The situations, where donk betting is GTO strategy, is typically, when the flop or the next card is better for the defending players range. But of course if donk bets tend to get raised a lot in your games, then just do it for value and print money, when you have the goods.

As Fundiver has said main times you want to donk bet are when you have a range and/or nut advantage.

You can balance small donk bets on flops with possible draw hands by betting with very strong hands and with draws.

Thank you all for your contribution and it is exactly what I said in my article: regular players will lead/donk most of times having strong/nutted hands or with very strong draws.
Fishes will donk with dominated hands, top pair weak kicker, second pair, and wicked draws, such as baby flush draws, gutshots, etc
And as many mates have said, it is a move that either if we are the ones donking or reacting to a donk, we must know the opponent before doing it or calling/raising it.

 

[dannystanks]

The Donkey Kick is a fun tool to have in your poker tool box. It works if you can figure out the right time to use it just like every other tool you have. Most of the time you are in the BB and facing your opponents opening range that hopefully you have narrowed down somewhat.
Something to think about if the Donk Bet is a good play in this situation. Go through each type of play in your head before you do it and see what makes most sense. If you don’t have a made hand and have a small flush draw type hand for example, if you check raise here and get re-raised your hand is not good enough to call. Check folding makes no sense because you do have a good draw. Check calling might not be good because you miss the turn quite often.
Donk betting can be fun because it confuses your opponents.
This can also be done with sets and two pair hands against the right opponent.
If this is something you never do because you’ve only seen new people that don’t know any better do it, I think you are missing an opportunity.

 

[Vallet]

Once such bets led me to serious losses. You bet without thinking, catch your hand in the late streets and find yourself involved in a big pot. It's getting hard to fold. This strategy is not for me.

 

[Baldy86]

when you know how to use it it can be beneficial

i sometimes do it when i hit top pair but the top pair is only an 8 for example and i am feeling that the opponent(s) has rasied preflop and holds AK and i am suspecting him/her to fold . so i bet there to take the pot right there

but you have to be careful

 

[Igor Popadyk]

a lot depends on the depth of the stacks and the player and also on the structure, I think a continuation bet in one player is still more profitable at a distance, but the hand should have at least some value