$50 NLHE 6-max: Can I jam here pre?

[Kroeska]

888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.25/$0.50 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $51.49 (103 bb)
MP: $46.17 (92 bb)
CO: $50.68 (101 bb)
BU: $61.43 (123 bb)
SB (Hero): $62.16 (124 bb)
BB: $18.25 (37 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with J♠ J♦
3 players fold, BTN raises to $1.25, Hero 3-bets to $5, 1 fold, BTN 4-bets to $13, Hero calls $8

Flop: ($26.50) T♠ A♥ 9♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $8.74, SB (Hero) folds

Total pot: $26.50 (Rake: $1.32)
BU wins $25.18

Hi!

In this situation, what should I do pre, when:
V is a bit aggro player, 4B ratio over 10%. Can I profitably jam here? Otherwise the call is fine I quess. What if V is a little bit tighter? 4B ratio 6%, against JJ , the JJ is a bit favorit. But OP feels better option to fold.

Thanks a lot for replying . Have a nice day, regards

 

[Leeyonah96]

For me, I can't jam with JJ. The BTN might have KK or AA. Good fold.

 

[300HPGOD]

These are the spots we all hate right lol. Personally I would not be 5 bet jamming about 120 BBs with JJ. The stats on villain are interesting that they 4 bet decent amount of the time and there could be some bluffs here depending on villain but personally I am not jamming this here. Then it comes down to calling or folding. I guess if you really think villain is over agg but could find a fold button you could almost click it back 5 bet which looks like the nuts but I dont think that will work and if you had the nuts here you could just call and then check raise/jam the flop on any flop so it really comes down to calling or folding. If I think that villain 4 bet range is AQ suited+ and even 99+ along with some air hands I still think folding is best. There are too many times we will be up against it here plus we are out of position after making this call. Even when we have a fighting chance against an AQ or something any flop that has a A, Q or even a K is going to scare us. You would need air to show up here fairly often imo to make this a good call. I think the play is probably to fold or jam and I already said I dont like jamming this deep with JJ.

As played the flop that came up is brutal as every Ax beats you, the pairs you were beating in 1010 and 99 got the set and bigger pairs of course are bigger pairs. Folding is correct unless you think villain can fold KK or QQ and want to get tricky (might be too FPS though). If you think you can get them to fold then you can call or raise here and rep the A but that is a higher variance play. KK and QQ are definitely in the range of villain but so is Ax. Its a risky play but you can consider it here.

 

[Kroeska]

These are the spots we all hate right lol. Personally I would not be 5 bet jamming about 120 BBs with JJ. The stats on villain are interesting that they 4 bet decent amount of the time and there could be some bluffs here depending on villain but personally I am not jamming this here. Then it comes down to calling or folding. I guess if you really think villain is over agg but could find a fold button you could almost click it back 5 bet which looks like the nuts but I dont think that will work and if you had the nuts here you could just call and then check raise/jam the flop on any flop so it really comes down to calling or folding. If I think that villain 4 bet range is AQ suited+ and even 99+ along with some air hands I still think folding is best. There are too many times we will be up against it here plus we are out of position after making this call. Even when we have a fighting chance against an AQ or something any flop that has a A, Q or even a K is going to scare us. You would need air to show up here fairly often imo to make this a good call. I think the play is probably to fold or jam and I already said I dont like jamming this deep with JJ.

As played the flop that came up is brutal as every Ax beats you, the pairs you were beating in 1010 and 99 got the set and bigger pairs of course are bigger pairs. Folding is correct unless you think villain can fold KK or QQ and want to get tricky (might be too FPS though). If you think you can get them to fold then you can call or raise here and rep the A but that is a higher variance play. KK and QQ are definitely in the range of villain but so is Ax. Its a risky play but you can consider it here.

HPGOD, thanks a lot for your rely, you are the men. Everyone knows how frustrating these spots could be. I think it is so difficult to play, because I don’t want to overfold in these spots. And than, with a very aggro 4 better, +10%, I think I am overfolding when I lay the JJ down.
But calling, without a J on flop, you aren’t happy. Low board you would be scared of QQ+. What you say, on a flop with Q, K or A thats what can makes us fold.
You say you would fold here pre. Do you most of the time jam QQ here than against a aggro V, because with a low flop you probably go for all the chips. Better jam pre to avoid a A or K on the flop. If he have KK or AA, better than pre allin to call here and see a K or A on flop where V have AQ, AJs with his big 4B ratio.
But, of course, the aggro player cbets a lot in these spots on any board with his, for example, AQ and AJs that could be free money. ? You will understand how difficult I think it is to find answers and make right decisions in these spots, where I think, this will make or break the earnings for a big part..
Have a nice day! Regards

 

[300HPGOD]

HPGOD, thanks a lot for your rely, you are the men. Everyone knows how frustrating these spots could be. I think it is so difficult to play, because I don’t want to overfold in these spots. And than, with a very aggro 4 better, +10%, I think I am overfolding when I lay the JJ down.
But calling, without a J on flop, you aren’t happy. Low board you would be scared of QQ+. What you say, on a flop with Q, K or A thats what can makes us fold.
You say you would fold here pre. Do you most of the time jam QQ here than against a aggro V, because with a low flop you probably go for all the chips. Better jam pre to avoid a A or K on the flop. If he have KK or AA, better than pre allin to call here and see a K or A on flop where V have AQ, AJs with his big 4B ratio.
But, of course, the aggro player cbets a lot in these spots on any board with his, for example, AQ and AJs that could be free money. ? You will understand how difficult I think it is to find answers and make right decisions in these spots, where I think, this will make or break the earnings for a big part..
Have a nice day! Regards

I believe these spots with JJ and QQ are the toughest in the game when we are in the blinds and raise and then get 4 bet. I do believe though that even though these two hands (QQ and JJ) are only one apart in rank it is a drastic difference between the two. I would fold JJ as I stated above but with QQ I am calling pre. The difference is now there are (in my range anyway which is a guess) 99-JJ that I beat and only AA and KK that I lose to. If we jam here with QQ then we get snapped by those we lose to and definitely ( I think) get 99 and 1010 to fold so we are only getting JJ, AK (maybe) to call (if you are up against a sweater nitter like me than you might even get JJ to fold). So when we have QQ here I call pre with the intention of calling down unless the flop has a A, K or is nasty like 3,10,J. I would call down and keep 99-JJ in the hand and if I call down and wind up losing to KK or AA then that is the same result as jamming pre and getting snapped.

With QQ I feel I play more perfectly calling pre and letting the worse hands stay in rather than jam it and have only better hands call with the possible exception of JJ and AK.

 

[Kroeska]

I believe these spots with JJ and QQ are the toughest in the game when we are in the blinds and raise and then get 4 bet. I do believe though that even though these two hands (QQ and JJ) are only one apart in rank it is a drastic difference between the two. I would fold JJ as I stated above but with QQ I am calling pre. The difference is now there are (in my range anyway which is a guess) 99-JJ that I beat and only AA and KK that I lose to. If we jam here with QQ then we get snapped by those we lose to and definitely ( I think) get 99 and 1010 to fold so we are only getting JJ, AK (maybe) to call (if you are up against a sweater nitter like me than you might even get JJ to fold). So when we have QQ here I call pre with the intention of calling down unless the flop has a A, K or is nasty like 3,10,J. I would call down and keep 99-JJ in the hand and if I call down and wind up losing to KK or AA then that is the same result as jamming pre and getting snapped.

With QQ I feel I play more perfectly calling pre and letting the worse hands stay in rather than jam it and have only better hands call with the possible exception of JJ and AK.

Thanks for your reply to this HP! Hope you have a great weekend. Regards

 

[liuouhgkres]

Bro, don't listen to these nits. You can and SHOULD easily 5bet jam JJ even against normal players. And this guy being so aggro it becomes mandatory jam to make him fold AQ, KQ type of hands that he might be overbluffing.

 

[gustav197poker]

I think it depends on your appreciation of the aggressiveness that you think this villain has. If he's an opponent who bluffs 60% from BU, (not an exaggerated estimate for an aggressive player) you need around 30 bluffs combos at rank V, which you can defeat preflop. (Assuming V has around 20 value combos) to make 5bet push preflop. But it's not obvious that a aggressive villain folds the: AQ combos often enough to be profitable. Maybe we can target a wider range, then we should include somes combos as: AT; KT; and QT, as bluffs in 4-bets preflop. But you need more information to assume this premise. Because these hands are more compatible with a bluff range of 80% from BU and not 60% as we assumed at the beginning.
Postflop could go various ways although the ideal is to shove preflop instead of here. So your fold on the flop is a correct explotative move, when you don't have enough information about your villain.
Greetings.