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Message: [QUOTE="Aballinamion, post: 5654175, member: 289533"] Sorry, I didn't mean 100% of times, but in a very high frequency in flops that are drawie/connected/wet/etc. The other question is complicated, because if we look down to the pot odds we have much more than necessary for calling and sometimes raising, because in these types of Turn configuration, BB can present enough draws on its range that might justify we putting chips into the pot. And you are right, players at 2 NLHE and 5 NLHE, even the fishes, uses to play high value and if I really have the note that the guy is the famous "polarized only for value" case, with an aggression factor varying from 0 to 2, I can fold this TP2K/TPSK from time to time, because we are out of position. This question is very good and complicated because we are out of position. If there was no one else behind us left to act it would be a very calm call. Now we must consider that for the times we are calling, we are already losing a couple of them, because one of the players in position can raise and depending on the case we cannot go further with your Top Pairs types. Another point to observe is that by calling, we make the odds for players in position much better, and they are going to call more, turning the value of our holding, weaker. Plus all of that, let's consider what are we going to do OTR, in the case we call and players in position all fold, and BB comes betting 1/2 pot, 2/3 pot, 100% pot, overbetting the pot, pushing, what are we going to do? In the case we call and one of the players in position calls and BB bets 1/2 pot are we happy calling? This is why looking only to the mathematical side of the thing can lead us into infinite mistakes, because there are so many factors that pot odds cannot simply clarify and we must take those into consideration before putting money into the pot. Thanks for the input, have a nice day. Regards; Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa [/QUOTE]

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