$5 NLHE 6-max: KK in 5-bet 3-way Pot

[Great Big Pair]

To me this is a standard "get all your chips in the middle and let the Lord sort it out" type of spot. But maybe I'm missing something?

Do you ever fold here? Does the fact I'm 175 BB deep and MP has me covered change anything?

GG Poker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 175.6 BB
SB: 154.6 BB
BB: 95.2 BB
UTG: 76.4 BB
MP: 207 BB
CO: 145.6 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K♦ K♣

fold, MP raises to 2.6 BB, fold, Hero raises to 10.2 BB, fold, BB raises to 28 BB, MP raises to 207 BB and is all-in, Hero ??

 

[mktpppr]

Nothing standard about this hand.

Yes, we have to consider folding in this spot.

Yes, 175bb effective does change things.

It's very very close, but I The Matrix-tank fold this, simply because we're 175bb deep and readless.

If we were 200bb deep then it's an easy fold.

Usually we need reads to fold KK in micros, but MP is 5bet jamming 175bb multi-way.

For this spot, we need to flip things around and say: "We need reads to call."

Depending on reads for MP specifically, my answer could change. BB is fishy.

Also, 3bet to 3x, 4x is ok-ish.

 

[Great Big Pair]

Nothing standard about this hand.

Yes, we have to consider folding in this spot.

Yes, 175bb effective does change things.

It's very very close, but I The Matrix-tank fold this, simply because we're 175bb deep and readless.

If we were 200bb deep then it's an easy fold.

Usually we need reads to fold KK in micros, but MP is 5bet jamming 175bb multi-way.

For this spot, we need to flip things around and say: "We need reads to call."

Depending on reads for MP specifically, my answer could change. BB is fishy.

Also, 3bet to 3x, 4x is ok-ish.

Thanks for your comments, but I have a couple of questions.

First, I started 3-betting closer to 4x after multiple responses on this forum saying I should be 3-betting more when I was using a 3x standard. So it appears there may be debate on this issue?

Second, When I 3-bet MP initially, what was I hoping for? I knew he was deep and had me covered. Am I folding to another raise by him even if the pot wasn't multi-way? Am I 3-betting only for the fold equity?

 

[mktpppr]

In general 3bet IP to 3x, and to 4x OOP.

We are 3betting for value, but different responses behind us will require us to respond differently.

Just because our very first action is for value, doesn't mean we go broke regardless of anything that happens after that.

 

[Great Big Pair]

Just because our very first action is for value, doesn't mean we go broke regardless of anything that happens after that.

In the general sense, I agree with this completely. But we are only behind AA here. Is folding KK sensible only because he has us covered and we're deep? At 175 BB do you only get it in pre with AA?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I appreciate your insight. Just questioning.

 

[gustav197poker]

This is a very very undesirable call but we must call here, almost 100% of the time in micro stakes.
The action comes from a very strong position, but the V has made a small opening, representing a wider range.
This is an indication that his range could have super premium hands, but it is also possible to include other less strong hands.
On the other hand, the V of BB has a range that is perceived more capped. Unless we have a super fine read that this last player is a nit, we shouldn't be afraid to enter this pot with pocket kings.
Eventually we will lose in these places when an opponent shows us pocket aces, but this is not reason enough to throw away the second best possible hand preflop. I repeat, in this spot we need very specific readings that some of the villains involved in the hand have a super tight range. But we should consider the fold if we have hundreds and hunddreds of hands played with some villain.
Greetings.

 

[mktpppr]

In the general sense, I agree with this completely. But we are only behind AA here. Is folding KK sensible only because he has us covered and we're deep? At 175 BB do you only get it in pre with AA?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I appreciate your insight. Just questioning.

My answer is specifically for the spot you posted.

Discussing this spot is different to discussing how to play KK in all possible scenarios.

In general, vs only one opponent, at 200bb effective stacks, we must be very certain that villain has a wider range before we go broke preflop with KK.

Meaning, we need reads.

One possible scenario is being vs a 4bet: if so, then we should rather flat vs 4bet and play postflop.

But we can't discuss all possible scenarios here.

 

[lanelosee100]

I'd say my decision would be player dependent. If the player in the hand seem recreational and are mixing it up I'd call. If they are capable and not ridiculous I'm folding. The always getting it all in preflop with KK is stupid in my opinion. AA is the only sure thing preflop for me.