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Message: [QUOTE="300HPGOD, post: 6177334, member: 305911"] I agree with fundiver that the raise is too large to be calling this pre flop. This is also a type of hand that you can hit something with and still not be all that good. If the flop would have come K73 are we calling with confidence to a 50-60% bet sizing? I would not be confident with it but I guess we would have to call almost trapping ourselves. The larger the pre flop raise is the larger that flop bet will be by villain so I think I just pitch here and wait for another hand. As played on the flop I personally dont like the lead. Most villains at this level are going to c bet and then we can go from there (depending on the sizing I would probably just call and wait for the turn to raise but that is just me). When you lead you really need villain to have an overpair to get a lot of value. It is 2NL so you will get a lot of loose calls but at the same time do we want to risk making AJ off fold here when we are pretty sure they will make a bet into us if we check? I always take a lead out there as a one pair hand so I dont agree with the bluffiness but it does make your hand look weaker than it is imo so I get it from that point but I dont think we have to play that way at 2 NL. I would let villain potentially hang themself here and just check to the raiser. I would not personally love the turn in game but would not hate it either. I wouldnt think villain has too many 8x hands they are raising pre with a limper already in there at 2 NL so I wouldnt think its a card that could give me extra value. I would see it as a blank or a card where villain picked up a few boat outs to their pocket pair. If we bet the flop I would bet this turn as well for what I just wrote. It doesnt change the hand (little do I know) so if I am betting for value on the flop I would bet for value here too. If villain has nothing then you probably arent getting anything on the river anyway unless they spike a card. As played on the river I like betting big to make our hand look more polarized (not sure villain would pick up on that) and it also could be a spot where if villain is calling 50% pot they will also call pot. Once we get raised though we have to start thinking about what the hell they would do this with that we beat and makes sense that they have. I really dont think villain would have any 8x other 88 which beats us that would raise pre in this situation. If if they were to have some, we block 78 and 98 beats us. I would discount QQ as I dont think villain checks the turn with QQ there. I would really think its not a bluff often either so I would pin them heavily on J10. If I was on the top of my game I would fold the river here but I will admit that I would probably call in game just because I am not that good and would have the "show it to me" mentality. In going through the hand though and thinking about it I think this is a fold that you can make safely on the river at 2NL. [/QUOTE]

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