$2 NL HE 6-max: Defending middle pair

[puzzlefish]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.01/$.02

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

Another gem from 888 Snap fast-fold poker.

BTN (Hero) 105.5bb
SB 200bb
BB 88bb
UTG 89.5bb
HJ 70bb
CO 40bb

Hero has

***Pre-flop***

UTG folds, HJ opens 4bb

Hero? Calls

SB 3bets 8bb

HJ calls

Hero? ... doesn't really respect a 2x raise here from SB and calls

***Flop***
25bb in the pot



SB bets 12.5bb
HJ calls
Hero? Calls

***Turn***
62.5bb in the pot



SB bets 20.5bb
HJ calls
Hero? Calls

***River***
124bb in the pot



SB checks
HJ checks
Hero?

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Calling a 4BB open raise with J9o is pretty spewy. Just fold and snap your way to the next hand. As played I guess, you have to put in the other 4BB and see a flop.

Flop
If HJ had folded, its ok to continue with second pair as a bluff catcher, but when there is a bet and a call, its just a fold. Calling here is also pretty spewy.

Turn
You are getting a good price, but are you really going to win this 1 out of 6 times? The main point is to fold earlier, so that you dont even need to make this decision.

River
Now they both check, and thats good news, because now its pretty likely, you have the best hand. You hand is not strong enough to bet for value though, since you mostly beat busted draws like QT or spades, and these are not going to call. So just check back and take a free showdown.

 

[puzzlefish]

Calling a 4BB open raise with J9o is pretty spewy.

Is this specific for 6-max fast fold? For a general approach to 6-max J9o is part of the raising range for BTN, but it seems that would be if there is no prior action. Of course when there is an open from HJ that would change BTN's range, but there are considerations for HJ having a broken stack and the SB having a tendency to try to steal by playing overly aggressive seeing the weak action leading up to them.

 

[Station_Master]

Seems like a pretty easy fold preflop, the flop or the turn

 

[fundiver199]

Is this specific for 6-max fast fold?

No its general.

For a general approach to 6-max J9o is part of the raising range for BTN, but it seems that would be if there is no prior action. Of course when there is an open from HJ that would change BTN's range

Yes and sizing also matter. If HJ had min-raised, maybe it would be ok to call on BTN to take advantage of your postflop position. Although even then I would much prefer to have J9s, and I would mix in some 3-bets as well as flat calling. Just ask yourself this: If HJ had opened to 22BB, would you still give action with the same range? Hopefully your answer is no, and then you should also adjust your range, when someone open to 4BB instead of 2BB or 2,5BB.

but there are considerations for HJ having a broken stack

Thats a tell of them being maybe not the best player, but what does that mean in the specific situation? In my opinion it most likely mean small=small and big=big meaning, that if they had a marginal hand, they would have limped or min-raised, and when they go to 4BB, this mean, they have a really good hand like TT+, AQ+. And the thing, they do wrong, is, that they literally tell you their hand strength by their sizing.

To enterpret a 4BB raise in a different way, you need to play on a regular table, where you can notice, if someone does this all the time, and that they are also very active. Like maybe they are playing stats like VPIP 62 / PFR 43. Then I would not "respect" a 4BB raise at all, but I would still wait for a better hand than J9o to attack them. Like maybe if you have AJo, then you put the hammer down with a 3-bet, and get it in, if they come back over the top.

and the SB having a tendency to try to steal by playing overly aggressive seeing the weak action leading up to them.

Thats even more reason to fold, since you obviously dont want to face a 3-bet with a terrible hand like J9o. Also how is the action "weak", other than the fact you just called? This is a play, you could make with AA or KK but not with J9o.

 

[puzzlefish]

Also how is the action "weak", other than the fact you just called?

**Edit: I was just looking at the hand again and I noticed I made a mistake with the betting preflop. HJ opens 2bb not 4bb!

SB sees a short stacked player min-raising and then BTN just calling, which would appear weak and as BTN is expected to have a wide range. I am not so sure that players at 2NL respect raises as much as maybe at higher limits. I am finding the opposite and all sorts of hands get very strange action - like 3bets from SB and BB holding K6o type of strange. Mostly they just call raises though.

For me, in BTN, I see the broken stack minraise (which to me looks weak, because mostly amateur players do 2x opens anymore at this level where I play) and then SB 3bets with a 2x raise over the previous open and call, which again is typically what amateurs are doing these days. I am seeing the strong players usually do 3x - 4x sizing. 4x (because I misread the hand)

Anyway, once I chose to stay in the hand, the passive approach felt best since I could very well be losing to Kx and any kind of slow playing of a better Jx, QQ, AA so I was just trying to lose the minimum but couldn't justify a fold at any point.

 

[fundiver199]

If it was only a min-raise, then I am much more ok with calling preflop, especially if the players in the blinds are passive and will only 3-bet premium hands. Continuing postflop, when both opponents give action, is still questionable though. You are basically hoping, they are both on a draw, which ok maybe this time they were, but if either of them have top pair or even second pair better kicker, you are in bad shape.

 

[monkeytilter]

Just fold J9o pre, wayyyy too weak to get involved with.
1c/2c cash game just keep it simple, you don't want to be playing guessing games with marginal holdings that make marginal hands.

Yes you can OPEN the betting on the button with J9o, but that is only because you have fold equity and can take the blinds down or be in position if called, CALLING is just spew considering the rake, the opener's range, and the fact you have SB and BB still to act.

As played check the river and hope you have been lucky, at least you get to use your position to your benefit now.

 

[gustav197poker]

Prefolp: as played Fold o 4-bet/jam if you want to bluff super aggressively, only if your opponents are very weak and the table has very little VPIP. (98% of the time I would fold preflop in this situation).