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Message: [QUOTE="300HPGOD, post: 5841983, member: 305911"] The alternative is to do as was played and allow the villain to play perfectly. Every time a spade comes you are folding and that means whether they have it or they dont. If a spade does not come then it depends on whether villain is the type to lead out again and bluff. Some of the combos you mention above are not flush combos but still beat us. So are you calling them when a flush card doesnt come on the river? My guess is you are so you would be better off to raise them on the turn and see if they re raise you there and can possibly get away from it. Sounds a little weird so if you dont believe my next point I understand but part of the reason for raising on the turn is to also take control of the hand (I know I put raise for value in my post and it is since I still believe depending on opponent Kx can call you here). Raising the turn will lead to a lot of villains checking to you on the river and then you can decide there what you want to. Plus the draws you are worried about raising you on the turn will not always raise. Much of the time they will fear you have something large and will call to see if they can get there on the river. The equity calculation above that you make does not factor in the the added value of getting the opponent to check the river, does not factor in sometimes that villain will call with worse like some Kx hands, and is assuming villain always raises with draws and does not just call the raise with them. I am not acting like what I am writing is the best move ever, I am putting in what I like to do in spots similar to these since I know there will be many river cards that could come where I could (maybe not you) will be outplayed. I think with this play you will get a little more value from hands that if you called otherwise would just check fold the river to you when you are ahead. [/QUOTE]

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