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Message: [QUOTE="SpanRmonka, post: 6916068, member: 429759"] Yeah, I wary of the over 3 X raise pre, most players aren't raising much worse than this, so when combined with the fact you suggest the table is a bit crazy, I don't want to getting too involved with ATs....and A comes and then we're not actually that happy! But I think calling isn't far off fine either. So since you did, then you pick up a the nut flush draw.....at this stage the only reason I'm checking is to check shove, but he doesn't bite.....so onto the turn we go. On the turn when you do improve to TPTK with the nut flush draw, then shoving is likely a good move, although it is against 2 players, which could maybe have me adjusting to making it a bluff catcher on a crazy table. But they BOTH call your shove. Large initial raise can look like a small PP who has now hit their set, maybe also another flush draw with pair? If you did lose, sometimes these types of hands can kind of play themselves! [/QUOTE]