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Message: [QUOTE="OzExorcist, post: 2463839, member: 23910"] *takes a deep breath* First off here's a thread on the whole thing if you're interested in some details - it started when this case broke two years ago, but has been getting updates ever since: [url]https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-news-events-63/[/url] Ivey freely admits to being an "advantage player" when he's playing table games. Whether "advantage play" is the same as "cheating" is basically what this case is looking to decide. Note this doesn't suggest for a second that he cheats people at poker - and he very obviously doesn't consider what he does at table games to be cheating either. At poker, sure. Baccarat / punto banco is a skill-free game though, there's no such thing as a "good" player. So why does he do it? One, he's a massive degen (he just happens to be a winning one at poker). And two, he'll get action on table games (whereas smart poker players wouldn't want to play him since he's so much better). There was a second incident (or series of incidents), you're right. The Borgata in the US is suing Ivey to get back about $9.7 million he won from them doing exactly the same thing. As for casinos having flawless cards... yeah, you'd think they should. But apparently they some don't. IIRC, edge sorting is an advantage play that casinos have only caught onto relatively recently. I think there are articles saying that even in the mid-2000s it wasn't widely recognised by casino game security teams. The part I find most amusing though is that it's ridiculously easy to counter, even if you DO have cards with printing flaws: you just incorporate a turn into the shuffle procedure :p In the Crockfords case, IMO both sides acted pretty shady. Ivey definitely went in looking to angle shoot the casino, and I'm almost certain the casino tried to freeroll him right back (as in, they would have definitely kept his money if he'd lost, but it seems like they recognised what he was doing, and planned all along not to pay him if he won). Remember that advantage playing doesn't guarantee winning - it was still very possible he could have lost a huge sum in this game. In the Borgata case, I think it's almost certainly incompetence. I mean they actually [b]paid[/b] him. And not just once, he did it to them several times, over the space of a few months! [/QUOTE]

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