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Message: [QUOTE="300HPGOD, post: 6503483, member: 305911"] A lot to reiterate here. We are playing full ring against what you describe as two villains that are solid players. In front of us we have an UTG open (again, this is full ring so this raise means something) and UTG +1 3 betting. UTG is 16/12 and they are opening from UTG so they are very frequenty very strong here. Then UTG+1 which is 5% 3 bettor (which is little low probably and definitely not wide) 3 betting from again, UTG+1 of all places full ring. That is two pretty strong hands there so I am not partying when I have QQ in this spot. Im also not looking to get out of the hand either. My preferred play here which sounds a little weak would be to just call pre and essentially set mining knowing if we get this set we are getting it all because whatever villains we face will never expect us to be just flatting with QQ. I dont love 4 betting since we are going against two strong narrow ranges, we would need to know what we are doing before we bet if we should face a 5 bet which I would personally be folding as you did, and then when we do 4 bet we are probably folding out the hands we dont want to fold out like JJ and 1010. All those reasons lean me to me to call here and treat the hand the same as if we had 99. As far as 4 bet sizing goes I think your sizing is actually good even though it is not that large. Again, I wouldnt 4 bet here but we should have planned before we 4 bet that if 5 bet we are out of here and we also dont want hands worse than ours to fold so we wouldnt want to go big here with a 4 bet. I dont want JJ to fold and going to something like low 30's BBs for a raise makes JJ fold and also makes it more expensive to fold to a 5 bet. The thought process behind 4 betting to 20 or so is that we might get UTG to fold which I am not sure how likely that is since they are 16/12 opening from UTG. If UTG had been a full ring 30/25 player then the 4 bet makes more sense to get the hand heads up as it would more often be the case but with this tight a player opening UTG I dont think we can expect them to fold often and also UTG+1 who already 3 bet probably is going nowhere either. [/QUOTE]

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